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Bill before Icelandic Parliament to grant Edward Snowden citizenship
- brianbreslin 13y agoAre icelandic parliamentary bills typically that short?
- dbalatero 13y agoMaybe this one is just short because of how specific a request it is. What more could you say about it?
- logn 13y agoIn the US, if it were sure to pass, there would be many amendments for unrelated things and then it would be 600 pages long and we'd deal with the repercussions of unseen gotchas for the next 50 years.
- smsm42 13y ago600 pages? That's like a note scribbled on a napkin. Obamacare was 2400+ pages as a bill, though contracted to mere 906 pages as a law. Current immigration bill is about 1200 pages. And Obamacare is not unique at its verbosity, there are a number of bills that are almost as long as it is: http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1375-For-Bills-in-Congress-How-Long-is-Long- http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1375-For-Bills-in-...
- astrodust 13y agoA lot of American bills start with at least a dozen "BE IT RESOLVED" clauses that give some background, justification, or just anecdotal stories. It's like you can't declare anything without four pages of legalese.
- weland 13y agoIceland does have about 800 additional years of parliamentary experience, they probably managed to get it right eventually :-).
- mjn 13y agoCitizenship ones seem to be. Here is the Bobby Fischer citizenship law: http://www.althingi.is/altext/stjt/2005.016.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/stjt/2005.016.html
- dalke 13y agoChange the URL from http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0078.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0078.html to http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0076.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0076.html , http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0075.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0075.html, http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0073.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0073.html, http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0025.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0025.html , and so on, then judge for yourself. Most of the ones I saw were short. However, take that last one as an example. It's a committee report, saying "The majority suggests that the bill will be passed unchanged." Here's a longer one: http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0015.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0015.html . "Bill amending Act no. 74/2012 on fishing fees." Next question - how long are they in other governments? For example, the recent US "Freedom to Fish" [in the 'waters downstream of a dam'] Act is only two pages.
- wicker 13y agoAll of those appear to be in Icelandic. Is there any significance of the Snowden bill in particular being in English? EDIT: Oh right, just saw that the link's through Google Translate. My bad.
- arnarbi 13y agoAll of you links but the last one are to committee comments on bills, not the bills themselves. Here are some bills discussed in the past days: http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0067.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0067.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0046.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0046.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0040.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0040.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0020.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0020.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0007.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0007.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0006.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0006.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0005.html http://www.althingi.is/altext/142/s/0005.html
- kunai 13y agoIt's relieving that Iceland is the only country with any balls left for civil liberty, and all those that complained about the NSA spying but then refused Snowden asylum should be ashamed of their actions. It's an international embarrassment. Also quite ironic this happens on the Fourth. As I type this, I breathe an immense sigh of relief. It's odd that Snowden, a man I hardly know, influences me that much. It's the feeling I get when I think of the founding fathers and their sacrifice and how it paid off after a long and difficult struggle. I don't know if it will pay off for the United States, but bravo to Snowden for standing up and doing something apart from signing online "petitions."
- arethuza 13y agoHow likely is this to be passed? I would imagine that there will be a fair amount of influence exerted in the direction of Reykjavik to make sure this doesn't pass. Actually, it would be fascinating to see the records of the incoming calls to the leaders of the Icelandic government - I wonder who could help with that? ;-)
- hugi 13y agoThere's zero chance this will pass. We currently have a right wing majority in parliament in Iceland, and they're not keen on issues of civil liberty. Head of one of the ruling parties said last week that "Snowden is going to go to the back of the citizenship line like everyone else". Sorry.
- orn 13y agoHere is another story about it http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisir.is%2Fsnowden-frumvarp-lagt-fram-a-althingi%2Farticle%2F2013130709573 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&tl=en&u=ht...
- runarberg 13y agoWell, there might be 0.1% chance. I mean, Framsóknarflokkurinn just supported the new constitution, a bill put forward by the Leftist Green. They might yet surprise us.
- noarchy 13y agoIceland also granted citizenship to the late chess great Bobby Fischer, when he was on the verge of being deported to the US, from Japan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer#Asylum_in_Iceland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer#Asylum_in_Iceland
- deong 13y agoYeah, but Fischer was wanted for playing chess in Yugoslavia and generally being an ass. Accepting Snowden is whole new level of shit-storm for whatever country does it. I've been living in Iceland for about three years, and there's no way they're taking him.
- linohh 13y agoWay to go. I wonder why none of the south american countries offered him citizenship and a passport, maybe even a diplomatic one (it won't give him immunity, but will help with travel arrangements)
- znowi 13y agoSurprisingly, tiny Iceland is the only country in Europe daring to question American might.
- klausjensen 13y agoA few politicians in the parliament, not "Iceland".
- agilebyte 13y agoWell, maybe like with offshore tax havens, it has some nice benefits if you are a small country yet have an international recognition.
- btilly 13y agoI question the "in Europe" bit. Iceland is closer to the halfway line between mainland Europe and North America than it is to Europe. Geologically it is squarely in the middle, being built on the mid-Atlantic ridge. The nearest larger piece of land is Greenland, which is on the North America continental plate. These facts matter. Iceland is used to being very far from everyone, and able to set its own rules. Because who is going to bother trying to invade?
- Quarrelsome 13y agoAhem. Iceland is a very strategic location in the centre of the Atlantic sea, a good place for Arctic circle expeditions and a half-way stop to Europe. During WW2 it was used as an outpost for supply deliveries to the USSR. Therefore invading Iceland would be a good call for any large force for strategic purposes. I think you might also underestimate the influence both Europe and the US are able to place upon it. "Able to set its own rules" is probably a bit of an exaggeration that I would guess is derived from the awful journalism that has recently suggested that Iceland have done "great things" (jail bankers, bail out its own mortgage holders) when the journalism is infact mostly incorrect. Iceland is really not _that_ different from Europe/US.
- btilly 13y ago
- ck2 13y agoIs it Iceland or Greenland that has energy independence? That gives them some economic power. I'd like to visit there someday, that is if the US doesn't stop allowing people to visit there like Cuba.
- orn 13y agoIt's Iceland, Greenland is ruled by Denmark
- valugi 13y agoGreenland now is autonomous (more and more).
- unethical_ban 13y agovalugi is dead.
- Quarrelsome 13y agoWe still have no gasoline though and the cars/boats/planes are not electric. We have a lot of free energy in regards to heating, hot water and electricity only. Nor can we easily export that energy without large advances in the field of superconductors being so far from mainland Europe.
- ck2 13y agoDon't you have hydrogen "gas" stations? Wikipedia says they are aiming for 2050 energy independence. That would be incredible.
- Quarrelsome 13y agoWell its not like there are many vehicles that support the fuel. As far as I'm aware there are only two electric "pumps" available in the entire country. We're still very much based on the technology of gasoline. 2050 perhaps, but its still a long way off.
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- runarberg 13y agoWhen is it being voted on? Are people going to gather around Alþingi? Has anyone planed anything to push the MP on letting this through?
- Bro_Merch 13y agoAImll
- vladd 13y agoThe degree of US's actions for catching Snowden ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5982842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5982842 ) despite previous statements of Obama suggesting otherwise is puzzling. I hope the law gets passed.
- oldmanjoe 13y agoIt surely cannot be good legislative practice to make laws solely for one person, even if it seems to be the right thing at the time. In general it is thought to be good practice that a law should address a particular form of behavior rather than a specific individual or group. Although Congress has in the past passed laws for individuals, such as when Congress passed a law in 1963 making Winston Churchill an honorary American citizen ( http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/biography/redux/churchill-honored-with-us-citizenship http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/biography/redux/church... ). This use of legislation in the UK was also in effect from 1300-1800 and called a bill of attainder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder
- sswezey 13y agoThat's silly, he was an American through jus sanguinis already.
- arnarbi 13y agoIn Iceland, citizenship can only be granted by passing a new law in the parliament. Normally citizenships are granted in batches with similar bills, after the receivers pass the normal qualifying process carried out by the immigration authorities.
- oldmanjoe 13y agoThats really interesting, thanks!
- TazeTSchnitzel 13y agoThen why do we have Private Bills?
- joshuak 13y agoI love iceland. You guys rock. Even if it's only for the effort.
- mililani 13y agoIceland seems like a pretty good place to me. Minus the freezing and harsh winters, and the lack of sun. From all that I hear about it, it seems like a good place to expatriate to. Any thoughts on this?
- vidar 13y agoWe could always use more hackers!
- deong 13y agoI'm an American living in Iceland for about three years now. I like it here -- it's nice. But if you get your "facts" from the foreign press, you'll be sorely disappointed. It's not some sort of wonderland where the people took back the country from the bankers and wrote a new constitution on Facebook. Also, the winters aren't that cold.
- orng 13y agoI applaud the initiative but if this bill passes, what are the chances that we won't cave in and hand Snowden over as soon as the US start applying some real pressure?
- bdcravens 13y agoLooking at the bill, I see that he just had his 30th birthday a couple of weeks ago. Happy Birthday Edward! 30th is sort of a big deal (or depressing to some) - I'm sure he was 20 he didn't expect to be "celebrating" his 30th this way.
- hlynur 13y agoJust before adjourning parliament, a vote was cast to put the bill before a parliament committee to be discussed further. The vote was defeated 24 to 33, 5 didn't vote and one was absent. Seems like this door has closed. Can't find news articles on this, except this piece http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dv.is%2Ffrettir%2F2013%2F7%2F4%2Fmeira-kjarkleysid-og-aumingjadomur%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=n&prev=...