7 ms·

Two steps forward. One step back: http://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-start-banning-vpn-providers-130703/ http://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-s

by Amadou 13y ago

Two steps forward. One step back: http://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-start-banning-vpn-providers-130703/ http://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-start-banning-vp...

runarb 13y ago
Good we have Bitcoin then. Unfortunately if this trends continue sellers of Bitcoin will soon be facing blocks to.
- unreal37 13y ago
  It's already very difficult to buy Bitcoin with credit cards. I have no doubt that the credit card people are not happy about BTC trading exchanges.
trotsky 13y ago
vpn providers see an enormous amount of fraud.
- justanother 13y ago
  Yes, this. Card issuers do not enjoy doing business in sectors with high chargeback ratios. It probably isn't personal or political.
  - zmmmmm 13y ago
    But then this is partly a choice on their part. For example, I just received a new Visa PayWave card which lets me pay for anything under $100 just by waving my card over the terminal (no contact, no PIN, nothing). So they are removing just about every form of security from the transaction. The letter that comes with the card is full of assurances that I bear no liability for misuse of the card. So basically, the card providers are throwing security out the window because they want to increase the rate of legitimate transactions and then wholesale black banning whole segments of the market that have slightly higher risk to counterbalance the increased risk. If they were willing to apply slightly higher security measures they could easily mitigate the risk, but they don't want to because it would decrease the rate of legitimate transactions.
    - trotsky 13y ago
      Contactless smartcards like you describe are much more fraud resistant than existing skim-friendly magstripes.
    - josephlord 13y ago
      Make cuts with a sharp knife around the chip to sever the NFC antenna. Then confirm it doesn't work at a terminal you trust that you can cancel the transaction on. With UK credit laws I might be OK with this on a credit card but there was no way I wanted it on my debit card with a direct line to my current account. I only use the debit card for cash and the very occasional purchase (think car purchase once every 5 years or so frequency and inconvenience to pay cash).
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  They should be accepting bitcoins instead.
  - Chanel_Bunnell 13y ago
    Many of them do.
mrweasel 13y ago
I understand that people may have legitimate needs for a VPN, but as someone who has to deal with credit card fraud almost daily, I can understand their reasoning. Sure it sucks if you need a VPN, but if you're someone trying to catch people trying to defraud you it makes a lot of sense. VISA and MasterCard has rather high demands from businesses when it comes to preventing fraud, so naturally we have high demands to them. Restricting access to VPNs is a simple way of blocking a large number of low ranking fraudsters.
- _delirium 13y ago
  I can see blocking CC transactions that originate from a VPN provider's IP space, as having a high risk of fraud. But this is about blocking payments to the VPN providers, which seems somewhat different. Are they worried that the purchase of VPN services is itself often done via CC fraud? From the statement it sounds like they're more worried about the existence of VPN services at all. It doesn't personally affect me, though, because just about anything you can do via a VPN you can do by buying a VPS and ssh -D'ing through it. It takes slightly more technical skill, but anyone who can operate PuTTY can do it after reading about 1 page of instructions. And I consider it unlikely that Visa will start blocking payments to Linode or Digital Ocean...
  - lsc 13y ago
    >But this is about blocking payments to the VPN providers, which seems somewhat different. Are they worried that the purchase of VPN services is itself often done via CC fraud? Yes. the nature of credit card "security" is that, well, there is no security. The agreement between the merchant and the bank is that if anything goes wrong, the merchant has to return the money. This means that they generally only want to give merchant accounts to people who are "good for it" - they will check your credit, and if it isn't awesome, they will either hold back a bunch of your money, or deny you outright. They want to avoid industries with a lot of chargebacks for the same reason. "adult content" has the same problem... you get a /lot/ of chargebacks, so if you want to have a merchant account and sell adult content? well, you are going to pay substantially higher fees, and you are going to have a limited number of providers who will take you at all. But yeah, from what I've seen, reputable VPS providers have fairly low chargeback rates. I've never run a VPN service, so I wouldn't know, but from what I have been told, the chargeback rate is way higher.
eCa 13y ago
I really dislike the combination of the power of Visa/Mastercard and the war against cash.
- codyb 13y ago
  It is true they are powerful but don't hold out on getting a credit card for too long if you don't have one. They're really useful for building your credit score which will get you a better rate when you apply for a loan when you buy a home or car. This can save you tens of thousands of dollars in the long run. If you're worried about tracking and the ability of people to harvest information on your purchases use them solely for bills and no one will know any better. After maintaining a healthy relationship with your card provider ask for a higher limit, and continue to do so. The more credit available to you at any given time compared to the amount you're using affects your credit score as well. Apply for more cards and use each to pay for a bill. They also have amazing customer protection and will help you if you are ever the victim of fraud. Finally, they can actually get you tickets to things which are sold out from what I understand. Don't quote me on that but I heard that if you really need a ticket to see, say, the NBA finals, and all the tickets are sold out, don't go to craigslist (well try that too, and the scalpers outside I suppose but be careful), try calling your credit card company. It might be a bit more than face, but in a bind, they can help you out. I've never done that, I just graduated from college, but I listened to some financial tapes a while back and this is the advice I heard. I cannot exactly recall the author of the tapes or I would recommend them. Very quality and informative.
  - Amadou 13y ago
    I've basically stopped using my credit cards. I am cash only nowadays except for the occasional online purchase, and I am starting to use prepaid debit cards purchased with cash for those too. The straw that broke the camel's back was their move to start using my purchase history against me - i.e. manipulative marketing: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576627030651339352.htm http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020400230457662... I think it is a terrible state of affairs when the only people who can have privacy are those either rich enough to opt out of the mainstream (no mortgage, no car loan, no college loans for the kids, etc) or those willing to live in a state approaching poverty. I'm fortunate enough to be in the former group, but I have a lot more compassion for those in the second group.
unreal37 13y ago
The VPN in question is owned by Peter Sunde, a co-founder of The Pirate Bay. I think that's a factor in the decision to stop doing business with him...
powertower 13y ago
As far as I can tell from the other discussion, that only applies to 1 VPN provider due to their high chargeback rates. You can still purchase VPNs anywhere else.

by Amadou 13y ago

Two steps forward. One step back: http://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-start-banning-vpn-providers-130703/ http://torrentfreak.com/mastercard-and-visa-start-banning-vp...

runarb 13y ago

Good we have Bitcoin then. Unfortunately if this trends continue sellers of Bitcoin will soon be facing blocks to.

unreal37 13y ago
It's already very difficult to buy Bitcoin with credit cards. I have no doubt that the credit card people are not happy about BTC trading exchanges.

trotsky 13y ago

vpn providers see an enormous amount of fraud.

justanother 13y ago
Yes, this. Card issuers do not enjoy doing business in sectors with high chargeback ratios. It probably isn't personal or political.
- zmmmmm 13y ago
  But then this is partly a choice on their part. For example, I just received a new Visa PayWave card which lets me pay for anything under $100 just by waving my card over the terminal (no contact, no PIN, nothing). So they are removing just about every form of security from the transaction. The letter that comes with the card is full of assurances that I bear no liability for misuse of the card. So basically, the card providers are throwing security out the window because they want to increase the rate of legitimate transactions and then wholesale black banning whole segments of the market that have slightly higher risk to counterbalance the increased risk. If they were willing to apply slightly higher security measures they could easily mitigate the risk, but they don't want to because it would decrease the rate of legitimate transactions.
  - trotsky 13y ago
    Contactless smartcards like you describe are much more fraud resistant than existing skim-friendly magstripes.
  - josephlord 13y ago
    Make cuts with a sharp knife around the chip to sever the NFC antenna. Then confirm it doesn't work at a terminal you trust that you can cancel the transaction on. With UK credit laws I might be OK with this on a credit card but there was no way I wanted it on my debit card with a direct line to my current account. I only use the debit card for cash and the very occasional purchase (think car purchase once every 5 years or so frequency and inconvenience to pay cash).
toomuchtodo 13y ago
They should be accepting bitcoins instead.
- Chanel_Bunnell 13y ago
  Many of them do.

mrweasel 13y ago

I understand that people may have legitimate needs for a VPN, but as someone who has to deal with credit card fraud almost daily, I can understand their reasoning. Sure it sucks if you need a VPN, but if you're someone trying to catch people trying to defraud you it makes a lot of sense. VISA and MasterCard has rather high demands from businesses when it comes to preventing fraud, so naturally we have high demands to them. Restricting access to VPNs is a simple way of blocking a large number of low ranking fraudsters.

_delirium 13y ago
I can see blocking CC transactions that originate from a VPN provider's IP space, as having a high risk of fraud. But this is about blocking payments to the VPN providers, which seems somewhat different. Are they worried that the purchase of VPN services is itself often done via CC fraud? From the statement it sounds like they're more worried about the existence of VPN services at all. It doesn't personally affect me, though, because just about anything you can do via a VPN you can do by buying a VPS and ssh -D'ing through it. It takes slightly more technical skill, but anyone who can operate PuTTY can do it after reading about 1 page of instructions. And I consider it unlikely that Visa will start blocking payments to Linode or Digital Ocean...
- lsc 13y ago
  >But this is about blocking payments to the VPN providers, which seems somewhat different. Are they worried that the purchase of VPN services is itself often done via CC fraud? Yes. the nature of credit card "security" is that, well, there is no security. The agreement between the merchant and the bank is that if anything goes wrong, the merchant has to return the money. This means that they generally only want to give merchant accounts to people who are "good for it" - they will check your credit, and if it isn't awesome, they will either hold back a bunch of your money, or deny you outright. They want to avoid industries with a lot of chargebacks for the same reason. "adult content" has the same problem... you get a /lot/ of chargebacks, so if you want to have a merchant account and sell adult content? well, you are going to pay substantially higher fees, and you are going to have a limited number of providers who will take you at all. But yeah, from what I've seen, reputable VPS providers have fairly low chargeback rates. I've never run a VPN service, so I wouldn't know, but from what I have been told, the chargeback rate is way higher.

eCa 13y ago

I really dislike the combination of the power of Visa/Mastercard and the war against cash.

codyb 13y ago
It is true they are powerful but don't hold out on getting a credit card for too long if you don't have one. They're really useful for building your credit score which will get you a better rate when you apply for a loan when you buy a home or car. This can save you tens of thousands of dollars in the long run. If you're worried about tracking and the ability of people to harvest information on your purchases use them solely for bills and no one will know any better. After maintaining a healthy relationship with your card provider ask for a higher limit, and continue to do so. The more credit available to you at any given time compared to the amount you're using affects your credit score as well. Apply for more cards and use each to pay for a bill. They also have amazing customer protection and will help you if you are ever the victim of fraud. Finally, they can actually get you tickets to things which are sold out from what I understand. Don't quote me on that but I heard that if you really need a ticket to see, say, the NBA finals, and all the tickets are sold out, don't go to craigslist (well try that too, and the scalpers outside I suppose but be careful), try calling your credit card company. It might be a bit more than face, but in a bind, they can help you out. I've never done that, I just graduated from college, but I listened to some financial tapes a while back and this is the advice I heard. I cannot exactly recall the author of the tapes or I would recommend them. Very quality and informative.
- Amadou 13y ago
  I've basically stopped using my credit cards. I am cash only nowadays except for the occasional online purchase, and I am starting to use prepaid debit cards purchased with cash for those too. The straw that broke the camel's back was their move to start using my purchase history against me - i.e. manipulative marketing: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576627030651339352.htm http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020400230457662... I think it is a terrible state of affairs when the only people who can have privacy are those either rich enough to opt out of the mainstream (no mortgage, no car loan, no college loans for the kids, etc) or those willing to live in a state approaching poverty. I'm fortunate enough to be in the former group, but I have a lot more compassion for those in the second group.

unreal37 13y ago

The VPN in question is owned by Peter Sunde, a co-founder of The Pirate Bay. I think that's a factor in the decision to stop doing business with him...

powertower 13y ago

As far as I can tell from the other discussion, that only applies to 1 VPN provider due to their high chargeback rates. You can still purchase VPNs anywhere else.