10 ms·

I'm a zionist, and a jew. And I think that hating zionism, and hating Israel is hating the jews. Hating the policies of an individual Israeli government is poli

by colinb 13y ago

I'm a zionist, and a jew. And I think that hating zionism, and hating Israel is hating the jews. Hating the policies of an individual Israeli government is politics. I can tell the difference. Interestingly, I'm also a [naturalised] american living in the UK. I wrote to my MP the last time there was public debate about electronic surveillance and I voted against the last government because they were so consistently in favour of more spying with less oversight. But feel free to hate me too. Perhaps I'm the wrong kind of jewish, american, resident of Britain.

reeses 13y ago
People attacking zionism and the existence of Israel are generally being anti-semitic. MLK was correct in that accusation[1]. Does the Israeli government do things that I, as a zionist, despise? Absolutely. Does this mean that the State of Israel is illegitimate? No. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Frien... Even if one comment, taken out of context, resulted in a much more general Twain-like attribution.
- mathieuh 13y ago
  By anti-Zionism I don't mean to imply that I am for removing all Jews from Israel or whatever. I am for a one-state solution.
  - reeses 13y ago
    It's such an effed-up situation that the terms have specific, harmful, meanings. In the same sense that "african-american" refers to black people and not white, arabic, or other races, zionism has turned into a word that means "Israelis who abuse Palestinians." It's tough enough explaining the current and historical pressures that it becomes a minefield of terminology. Zionist/anti-zionist/anti-semitic/etc. are all loaded terms that now encourage emotion over logic. I'm not on your case, I'm feeling your pain in terms of having to use two posts and 50 words where one or two should suffice to keep people from going ballistic.
mathieuh 13y ago
If you're a Zionist, then I disagree with you in the strongest possible terms, because you are a Zionist, not because you are a Jew. I suppose I misrepresented what I meant by saying 'I hate Israel'. What I meant was I hate Israel in its current form (i.e, a rapidly expanding apartheid state). I guess I could pull the cop out 'but I have some Jewish friends!' but I won't, you'll just have to believe that me that I hate Zionism rather than Judaism.

by colinb 13y ago

reeses 13y ago

People attacking zionism and the existence of Israel are generally being anti-semitic. MLK was correct in that accusation[1]. Does the Israeli government do things that I, as a zionist, despise? Absolutely. Does this mean that the State of Israel is illegitimate? No. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Frien... Even if one comment, taken out of context, resulted in a much more general Twain-like attribution.

mathieuh 13y ago
By anti-Zionism I don't mean to imply that I am for removing all Jews from Israel or whatever. I am for a one-state solution.
- reeses 13y ago
  It's such an effed-up situation that the terms have specific, harmful, meanings. In the same sense that "african-american" refers to black people and not white, arabic, or other races, zionism has turned into a word that means "Israelis who abuse Palestinians." It's tough enough explaining the current and historical pressures that it becomes a minefield of terminology. Zionist/anti-zionist/anti-semitic/etc. are all loaded terms that now encourage emotion over logic. I'm not on your case, I'm feeling your pain in terms of having to use two posts and 50 words where one or two should suffice to keep people from going ballistic.

mathieuh 13y ago

If you're a Zionist, then I disagree with you in the strongest possible terms, because you are a Zionist, not because you are a Jew. I suppose I misrepresented what I meant by saying 'I hate Israel'. What I meant was I hate Israel in its current form (i.e, a rapidly expanding apartheid state). I guess I could pull the cop out 'but I have some Jewish friends!' but I won't, you'll just have to believe that me that I hate Zionism rather than Judaism.