3 ms·

Despite your rather obnoxious tone, it's quietly becoming the norm in America. Jared Marcum was arrested in school for wearing an NRA T-Shirt. The Bank of Ame

by bmelton 13y ago

Despite your rather obnoxious tone, it's quietly becoming the norm in America. Jared Marcum was arrested in school for wearing an NRA T-Shirt. The Bank of America graffitist was arrested for using sidewalk chalk. Occupy protestors in Nashville were arrested, and a judge later proclaimed that their arrests were a violation of their freedom of speech rights. I watched a video yesterday in which a dog was shot because the dog's owner was recording the police on his cell phone. Cameron D'Ambrosia was arrested for posting lyrics to a rap song on Facebook.

anigbrowl 13y ago
'even one example of someone being arrested and successfully charged'
- bmelton 13y ago
  Oh, so something more like the conviction of Terak Mehanna, who was convicted for espousing and translating documents about jihad? Or the Irvine 11, who were convicted (thankfully of pretty minor sentences) for protesting a speech? Or Walter Bagdasarian, who said that somebody ought to "shoot the nigger" (referring to Obama) who spent years in prison before being released on a circuit court appeal? In short, the 'successful charge' does add height to the hurdle, but the rampant arresting of people for their exercise of free speech is a problem, whether or not it results in a conviction. For many Americans, a week spent in jail, later to be released, is a very big problem; both from the result of lowered reputation as well as the financial impact.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    The right to free speech has never been unlimited - you are not free to make criminal threats, shout fire in a crowded theater and so on. Walter Bagdasarian not only exhorted readers of a public message board to 'shoot the nig [sic],' he also sent emails containing text such as "Pistol??? Dude, Josh needs to get us one of these, just shoot the nigga’s car and POOF!" with a link to a high-calibre rifle advertisement, among various other even more obnoxious statements. Bagdasarian happened to own a .50 cal rifle at the time he was making predictions that "[Obama] He will have a 50 cal in the head soon." I encourage you to read the full decision, as well as Wardlaw's dissent (with which I agree - Kosinski's reasoning seems strained, pendant as it is on other people being unaware of Bagdasian's ownership of the kind of gun whose use he was predicting) at http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09-50529.pdf http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09... The government did not appeal the 9th Circuit decision, as far as I know. Bagdasarian did not spend years in prison, or even go to jail. He was sentenced to time served (when he was detained prior to arraignment, after which he was freed on $100k bail), ordered to spend 60 days in a half-way house, undergo 2 years of supervised release, and fined $500. http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-convicted-obama-threat/ http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-c... I'm not sure why you chose this example, but you significantly mischaracterized his remarks and the penalty he suffered. I don't think the Irvine 11 are are going to see their sentences overturned at appeal, as their protest took place in the context of a private event and they were convicted of disrupting it by repeatedly shouting the speaker down, rather than for the content of their criticism (which I thought was entirely reasonable). I will look into the Terak Mehenna case, which I'm not familiar with but which comes up for appeal later this month.
    - bmelton 13y ago
      I was in something of a hurry, so perhaps I over-nutshelled. I haven't read the full decision, so I will, and will likely be informed. I also don't claim superior legal knowledge, though I am studying for the bar, but that is despite not having a juris doctorate, so there are large gaps in my knowledge, especially in crim. I could cite more examples, though perhaps the Mehenna case will be the best example of the ones cited anyway. Regardless, thanks for the corrections. I'll look into them.
      - anigbrowl 13y ago
        You're welcome, and I should probably know more about the Mehenna case. I wish I was still studying for the bar, I can't afford law school. :-/ Believe it or not I'm more drawn to defense work.
        bmelton 13y ago
        I could probably afford law school at a crappy college, but I'm attempting to pass the bar without law school or even a college education, so conversations like this are truly informative to me. I've been studying law for some time, but it only recently occurred to me that I should even attempt the bar, at some point in the future. A friend of mine keeps telling me I should blog about it, which I've agreed is a good idea to cement my findings, but I'm debating whether or not anyone would care about a random asshole trying to pass the bar enough to make the blog public. Here's[1] some aggregated info on Mehanna, and also his wikipedia entry[2], and ACLU's[3] recap. [1] - http://archive.recapthelaw.org/mad/119881/ http://archive.recapthelaw.org/mad/119881/ [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarek_Mehanna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarek_Mehanna [3] - http://aclum.org/usa_v_mehanna http://aclum.org/usa_v_mehanna
        anigbrowl 13y ago
        you've got mail.
        tptacek 13y ago

by bmelton 13y ago

anigbrowl 13y ago

'even one example of someone being arrested and successfully charged'

bmelton 13y ago
Oh, so something more like the conviction of Terak Mehanna, who was convicted for espousing and translating documents about jihad? Or the Irvine 11, who were convicted (thankfully of pretty minor sentences) for protesting a speech? Or Walter Bagdasarian, who said that somebody ought to "shoot the nigger" (referring to Obama) who spent years in prison before being released on a circuit court appeal? In short, the 'successful charge' does add height to the hurdle, but the rampant arresting of people for their exercise of free speech is a problem, whether or not it results in a conviction. For many Americans, a week spent in jail, later to be released, is a very big problem; both from the result of lowered reputation as well as the financial impact.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  The right to free speech has never been unlimited - you are not free to make criminal threats, shout fire in a crowded theater and so on. Walter Bagdasarian not only exhorted readers of a public message board to 'shoot the nig [sic],' he also sent emails containing text such as "Pistol??? Dude, Josh needs to get us one of these, just shoot the nigga’s car and POOF!" with a link to a high-calibre rifle advertisement, among various other even more obnoxious statements. Bagdasarian happened to own a .50 cal rifle at the time he was making predictions that "[Obama] He will have a 50 cal in the head soon." I encourage you to read the full decision, as well as Wardlaw's dissent (with which I agree - Kosinski's reasoning seems strained, pendant as it is on other people being unaware of Bagdasian's ownership of the kind of gun whose use he was predicting) at http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09-50529.pdf http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09... The government did not appeal the 9th Circuit decision, as far as I know. Bagdasarian did not spend years in prison, or even go to jail. He was sentenced to time served (when he was detained prior to arraignment, after which he was freed on $100k bail), ordered to spend 60 days in a half-way house, undergo 2 years of supervised release, and fined $500. http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-convicted-obama-threat/ http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-c... I'm not sure why you chose this example, but you significantly mischaracterized his remarks and the penalty he suffered. I don't think the Irvine 11 are are going to see their sentences overturned at appeal, as their protest took place in the context of a private event and they were convicted of disrupting it by repeatedly shouting the speaker down, rather than for the content of their criticism (which I thought was entirely reasonable). I will look into the Terak Mehenna case, which I'm not familiar with but which comes up for appeal later this month.
  - bmelton 13y ago
    I was in something of a hurry, so perhaps I over-nutshelled. I haven't read the full decision, so I will, and will likely be informed. I also don't claim superior legal knowledge, though I am studying for the bar, but that is despite not having a juris doctorate, so there are large gaps in my knowledge, especially in crim. I could cite more examples, though perhaps the Mehenna case will be the best example of the ones cited anyway. Regardless, thanks for the corrections. I'll look into them.
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      You're welcome, and I should probably know more about the Mehenna case. I wish I was still studying for the bar, I can't afford law school. :-/ Believe it or not I'm more drawn to defense work.
      - bmelton 13y ago
        I could probably afford law school at a crappy college, but I'm attempting to pass the bar without law school or even a college education, so conversations like this are truly informative to me. I've been studying law for some time, but it only recently occurred to me that I should even attempt the bar, at some point in the future. A friend of mine keeps telling me I should blog about it, which I've agreed is a good idea to cement my findings, but I'm debating whether or not anyone would care about a random asshole trying to pass the bar enough to make the blog public. Here's[1] some aggregated info on Mehanna, and also his wikipedia entry[2], and ACLU's[3] recap. [1] - http://archive.recapthelaw.org/mad/119881/ http://archive.recapthelaw.org/mad/119881/ [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarek_Mehanna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarek_Mehanna [3] - http://aclum.org/usa_v_mehanna http://aclum.org/usa_v_mehanna
        anigbrowl 13y ago
        you've got mail.
        tptacek 13y ago