4 ms·

Please show me even one example of someone being arrested and successfully charged in the US for exercising free speech. Hint: If you use Snowden as an example

Please show me even one example of someone being arrested and successfully charged in the US for exercising free speech. Hint: If you use Snowden as an example you automatically forfeit your right to participate in any reasonable discussion on the matter.

antoko 13y ago
err is your google broken? https://www.google.com/search?q=free+speech+arrest https://www.google.com/search?q=free+speech+arrest I'd also argue that having speech consigned to these places[1] when the whole country is supposedly a free speech zone doesn't follow the spirit of the 1st Amendment. Also if they setup a free speech zone and you don't use it then you can be arrested for that Obviously you can't be charged for "exercising free speech rights" since that isn't a crime, the charge is always something else like "disturbing the peace" or "resisting arrest" or some other trumped up nonsense. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone
- Fuckfencing 13y ago
  There have been instances of police corruption where someone was wrongfully arrested, but they are almost universally never successfully charged (unless they did something really stupid like assaulting a police officer). It is required by law to acquire a permit before protesting. This is very easy to do, everyone has permits for the July 4th protest already. The government has not historically blocked protest permit requests
  - missing_cipher 13y ago
    It doesn't really matter if the charges stick, does it? If you arrest 100 people you're sending a message to future protesters. Also, kind of ridiculous that you need a permit to protest.
    - Fuckfencing 13y ago
      It is not at all ridiculous that you need a permit to protest. Take off the tinfoil for a moment and think rationally. What happens during a protest? Often, huge masses of people gather in a single public area (a street, a park, a government building, etc). While protesters are generally well-intentioned, wherever there are large gatherings of people, there are criminally-minded folk who seek to exploit this via looting, theft, assault, and other wonderful things that the dregs of humanity like to perform. Additionally, it often gums up public works, traffic, etc. It's important that the police (yes, most police officers are just middle class folks like us that are interested in preserving general peace) be aware of these types of things so that they can provide protection for both the protesters and the citizens of the city.
      - gee_totes 13y ago
        Also keep in mind that some of these criminally minded folk could be members of the police acting as Agent Provocateurs, ala the 68 Democratic Convention[0] [0]http://books.google.com/books?id=8_HWOTtdsMUC&pg=RA1-PA126&lpg=RA1-PA126&dq=dnc+agent+provocateurs+1968&source=bl&ots=OxcOqng6fW&sig=GOKzNT6GSTEaLwGN1GRG8rKfu-k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PIHUUePXPKqW0QG1-4HAAw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=dnc%20agent%20provocateurs%201968&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=8_HWOTtdsMUC&pg=RA1-PA126&l...
  - antoko 13y ago
    you've already made up your mind so I'm not sure there is much point in continuing but feel free to read this. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arresting-protesters-on-brooklyn-bridge/ http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arrestin...
bmelton 13y ago
Despite your rather obnoxious tone, it's quietly becoming the norm in America. Jared Marcum was arrested in school for wearing an NRA T-Shirt. The Bank of America graffitist was arrested for using sidewalk chalk. Occupy protestors in Nashville were arrested, and a judge later proclaimed that their arrests were a violation of their freedom of speech rights. I watched a video yesterday in which a dog was shot because the dog's owner was recording the police on his cell phone. Cameron D'Ambrosia was arrested for posting lyrics to a rap song on Facebook.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  'even one example of someone being arrested and successfully charged'
  - bmelton 13y ago
    Oh, so something more like the conviction of Terak Mehanna, who was convicted for espousing and translating documents about jihad? Or the Irvine 11, who were convicted (thankfully of pretty minor sentences) for protesting a speech? Or Walter Bagdasarian, who said that somebody ought to "shoot the nigger" (referring to Obama) who spent years in prison before being released on a circuit court appeal? In short, the 'successful charge' does add height to the hurdle, but the rampant arresting of people for their exercise of free speech is a problem, whether or not it results in a conviction. For many Americans, a week spent in jail, later to be released, is a very big problem; both from the result of lowered reputation as well as the financial impact.
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      The right to free speech has never been unlimited - you are not free to make criminal threats, shout fire in a crowded theater and so on. Walter Bagdasarian not only exhorted readers of a public message board to 'shoot the nig [sic],' he also sent emails containing text such as "Pistol??? Dude, Josh needs to get us one of these, just shoot the nigga’s car and POOF!" with a link to a high-calibre rifle advertisement, among various other even more obnoxious statements. Bagdasarian happened to own a .50 cal rifle at the time he was making predictions that "[Obama] He will have a 50 cal in the head soon." I encourage you to read the full decision, as well as Wardlaw's dissent (with which I agree - Kosinski's reasoning seems strained, pendant as it is on other people being unaware of Bagdasian's ownership of the kind of gun whose use he was predicting) at http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09-50529.pdf http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09... The government did not appeal the 9th Circuit decision, as far as I know. Bagdasarian did not spend years in prison, or even go to jail. He was sentenced to time served (when he was detained prior to arraignment, after which he was freed on $100k bail), ordered to spend 60 days in a half-way house, undergo 2 years of supervised release, and fined $500. http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-convicted-obama-threat/ http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-c... I'm not sure why you chose this example, but you significantly mischaracterized his remarks and the penalty he suffered. I don't think the Irvine 11 are are going to see their sentences overturned at appeal, as their protest took place in the context of a private event and they were convicted of disrupting it by repeatedly shouting the speaker down, rather than for the content of their criticism (which I thought was entirely reasonable). I will look into the Terak Mehenna case, which I'm not familiar with but which comes up for appeal later this month.
thenmar 13y ago
This account was created 1 hour ago just to make this comment.
dkl 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone Not an arrest, but pretty fucked up. You seem to lack a lot of historical context.

antoko 13y ago

err is your google broken? https://www.google.com/search?q=free+speech+arrest https://www.google.com/search?q=free+speech+arrest I'd also argue that having speech consigned to these places[1] when the whole country is supposedly a free speech zone doesn't follow the spirit of the 1st Amendment. Also if they setup a free speech zone and you don't use it then you can be arrested for that Obviously you can't be charged for "exercising free speech rights" since that isn't a crime, the charge is always something else like "disturbing the peace" or "resisting arrest" or some other trumped up nonsense. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

Fuckfencing 13y ago
There have been instances of police corruption where someone was wrongfully arrested, but they are almost universally never successfully charged (unless they did something really stupid like assaulting a police officer). It is required by law to acquire a permit before protesting. This is very easy to do, everyone has permits for the July 4th protest already. The government has not historically blocked protest permit requests
- missing_cipher 13y ago
  It doesn't really matter if the charges stick, does it? If you arrest 100 people you're sending a message to future protesters. Also, kind of ridiculous that you need a permit to protest.
  - Fuckfencing 13y ago
    It is not at all ridiculous that you need a permit to protest. Take off the tinfoil for a moment and think rationally. What happens during a protest? Often, huge masses of people gather in a single public area (a street, a park, a government building, etc). While protesters are generally well-intentioned, wherever there are large gatherings of people, there are criminally-minded folk who seek to exploit this via looting, theft, assault, and other wonderful things that the dregs of humanity like to perform. Additionally, it often gums up public works, traffic, etc. It's important that the police (yes, most police officers are just middle class folks like us that are interested in preserving general peace) be aware of these types of things so that they can provide protection for both the protesters and the citizens of the city.
    - gee_totes 13y ago
      Also keep in mind that some of these criminally minded folk could be members of the police acting as Agent Provocateurs, ala the 68 Democratic Convention[0] [0]http://books.google.com/books?id=8_HWOTtdsMUC&pg=RA1-PA126&lpg=RA1-PA126&dq=dnc+agent+provocateurs+1968&source=bl&ots=OxcOqng6fW&sig=GOKzNT6GSTEaLwGN1GRG8rKfu-k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PIHUUePXPKqW0QG1-4HAAw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=dnc%20agent%20provocateurs%201968&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=8_HWOTtdsMUC&pg=RA1-PA126&l...
- antoko 13y ago
  you've already made up your mind so I'm not sure there is much point in continuing but feel free to read this. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arresting-protesters-on-brooklyn-bridge/ http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arrestin...

bmelton 13y ago

Despite your rather obnoxious tone, it's quietly becoming the norm in America. Jared Marcum was arrested in school for wearing an NRA T-Shirt. The Bank of America graffitist was arrested for using sidewalk chalk. Occupy protestors in Nashville were arrested, and a judge later proclaimed that their arrests were a violation of their freedom of speech rights. I watched a video yesterday in which a dog was shot because the dog's owner was recording the police on his cell phone. Cameron D'Ambrosia was arrested for posting lyrics to a rap song on Facebook.

anigbrowl 13y ago
'even one example of someone being arrested and successfully charged'
- bmelton 13y ago
  Oh, so something more like the conviction of Terak Mehanna, who was convicted for espousing and translating documents about jihad? Or the Irvine 11, who were convicted (thankfully of pretty minor sentences) for protesting a speech? Or Walter Bagdasarian, who said that somebody ought to "shoot the nigger" (referring to Obama) who spent years in prison before being released on a circuit court appeal? In short, the 'successful charge' does add height to the hurdle, but the rampant arresting of people for their exercise of free speech is a problem, whether or not it results in a conviction. For many Americans, a week spent in jail, later to be released, is a very big problem; both from the result of lowered reputation as well as the financial impact.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    The right to free speech has never been unlimited - you are not free to make criminal threats, shout fire in a crowded theater and so on. Walter Bagdasarian not only exhorted readers of a public message board to 'shoot the nig [sic],' he also sent emails containing text such as "Pistol??? Dude, Josh needs to get us one of these, just shoot the nigga’s car and POOF!" with a link to a high-calibre rifle advertisement, among various other even more obnoxious statements. Bagdasarian happened to own a .50 cal rifle at the time he was making predictions that "[Obama] He will have a 50 cal in the head soon." I encourage you to read the full decision, as well as Wardlaw's dissent (with which I agree - Kosinski's reasoning seems strained, pendant as it is on other people being unaware of Bagdasian's ownership of the kind of gun whose use he was predicting) at http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09-50529.pdf http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/07/19/09... The government did not appeal the 9th Circuit decision, as far as I know. Bagdasarian did not spend years in prison, or even go to jail. He was sentenced to time served (when he was detained prior to arraignment, after which he was freed on $100k bail), ordered to spend 60 days in a half-way house, undergo 2 years of supervised release, and fined $500. http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-convicted-obama-threat/ http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/oct/26/no-prison-la-mesa-man-c... I'm not sure why you chose this example, but you significantly mischaracterized his remarks and the penalty he suffered. I don't think the Irvine 11 are are going to see their sentences overturned at appeal, as their protest took place in the context of a private event and they were convicted of disrupting it by repeatedly shouting the speaker down, rather than for the content of their criticism (which I thought was entirely reasonable). I will look into the Terak Mehenna case, which I'm not familiar with but which comes up for appeal later this month.

thenmar 13y ago

This account was created 1 hour ago just to make this comment.

dkl 13y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone Not an arrest, but pretty fucked up. You seem to lack a lot of historical context.