4 ms·

I think that would be news to the rest of the world since it's likely illegal in most of it.

josh2600 13y ago
That's naive. You don't think the Russians and the Chinese have operatives in Washington trying to spy on Americans? Spying is illegal, but everyone does it. What we're talking about is an international game of brinksmanship. Illegality is a relative proposition. There are scarce few international laws that govern anything and even fewer international laws with teeth. Each individual nation has laws against spying, but given the propensity to avoid an international incident, I tend to think that spies who are discovered are either tortured or returned to their home countries. Since the laws of one country do not extend beyond their borders, it's difficult to enforce ones sovereignty in a different country, or to exert ones own authority over another nation-state's actor. This is all just very murky, but the concept of illegality is relative at best in this instance.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> I think that would be news to the rest of the world since it's likely illegal in most of it. The specific details of the NSA's (or any foreign intelligence service of any nation) intelligence gathering would be news, but the fact the NSA (or any foreign intelligence service of any nation) actually gathers intelligence outside of its home nation, quite often in violation of the laws of the places from which the intelligence is gathered, really isn't news. I mean, that's the whole point of foreign intelligence services.
- GHFigs 13y ago
  It's terrifying that people are even forming strong opinions about such things without understanding such basic information.
  - flyinRyan 13y ago
    I was furious when I was under the impression they were slurping up any data that came near the US. Now I'm even more appalled.
    - GHFigs 13y ago
      Precisely my point. Extreme emotional reactions are not a good basis for an informed opinion. Learning about a subject is much more important than telling people on the Internet how mad you are about it. The downside (and I admit, it is a downside) is that it's much harder to maintain that sense of absolute certainty and self-righteousness that constant outrage affords. The world becomes much more complicated and forming an opinion that you can be confident in actually takes effort.

That's naive. You don't think the Russians and the Chinese have operatives in Washington trying to spy on Americans? Spying is illegal, but everyone does it. What we're talking about is an international game of brinksmanship. Illegality is a relative proposition. There are scarce few international laws that govern anything and even fewer international laws with teeth. Each individual nation has laws against spying, but given the propensity to avoid an international incident, I tend to think that spies who are discovered are either tortured or returned to their home countries. Since the laws of one country do not extend beyond their borders, it's difficult to enforce ones sovereignty in a different country, or to exert ones own authority over another nation-state's actor. This is all just very murky, but the concept of illegality is relative at best in this instance.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> I think that would be news to the rest of the world since it's likely illegal in most of it. The specific details of the NSA's (or any foreign intelligence service of any nation) intelligence gathering would be news, but the fact the NSA (or any foreign intelligence service of any nation) actually gathers intelligence outside of its home nation, quite often in violation of the laws of the places from which the intelligence is gathered, really isn't news. I mean, that's the whole point of foreign intelligence services.

GHFigs 13y ago
It's terrifying that people are even forming strong opinions about such things without understanding such basic information.
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  I was furious when I was under the impression they were slurping up any data that came near the US. Now I'm even more appalled.
  - GHFigs 13y ago
    Precisely my point. Extreme emotional reactions are not a good basis for an informed opinion. Learning about a subject is much more important than telling people on the Internet how mad you are about it. The downside (and I admit, it is a downside) is that it's much harder to maintain that sense of absolute certainty and self-righteousness that constant outrage affords. The world becomes much more complicated and forming an opinion that you can be confident in actually takes effort.