6 ms·

Totally what I was thinking. I feel like there should be huge protests about the NSA situation right now in the US but it's like no one cares, let's just move o

by jneal 13y ago

Totally what I was thinking. I feel like there should be huge protests about the NSA situation right now in the US but it's like no one cares, let's just move on with our daily lives and forget that everything we say and do is being listened to and watched.

marvin 13y ago
This indifference of the "average Joe" is a major trait of totalitarianism. I never thought I would say this, and I'm actually afraid of saying it out loud because it sounds like hyperbole. But the way I see it, the USA is becoming a totalitarian state. It won't look like any previous totalitarian regime, but many of the hallmarks are there.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Even if you exaggerate the known NSA spying by one or two orders of a magnitude, the US is nowhere near becoming a totalitarian state.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    the fact is that all the elements are there to make it into one.　A huge government, a large military force, constant spying, a major disrespect for basic constitutional rights, and now it's just about how fast it slides.
  - marvin 13y ago
    Here are some examples of the "hallmarks of totalitarianism" I see in the United States. Read it and tell me that this is nowhere near totalitarianism. Tell me: what exactly is missing, and how much? Indiscriminate spying and privacy violation. Selective execution of citizens with no trial or oversight. Secret courts. Gag orders for oversight initiatives. World record in incarceration. Lifetime prison sentences for non-violent offenses. Indefinite, extrajudicial detention of prisoners. Torture. The use of plea bargains to persuade a guilty plea. Use of paramilitary forces (SWAT teams) to apprehend non-violent suspects. Asset freezes, with the consequence of rendering a fair trial impossible. Systematic persecution of whistleblowers, even those who follow the "chain of command". Harsh limits on legal protests ("free speech zones"). Persecution of investigative journalists. Overtly propagandic statements in the news media (referring to, for instance, CNN's very particular use of language in the Snowden case).
    - aet 13y ago
      I notice you list persecution of investigative journalists. What case were you thinking about?
      - marvin 13y ago
        Barrett Brown is the first name that comes to mind. Julian Assange is arguably in the same camp, at least partially. There has also been a sentiment that Glenn Greenwald should be prosecuted for his role in the Snowden case, albit not by government officials. The US does not systematically persecute investigative journalists, at least not yet. But the sentiment is there, and there are cases that have crossed the line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Brown http://falkvinge.net/2013/06/30/with-journalism-persecuted-the-united-states-is-now-at-event-horizon-to-a-police-state/ http://falkvinge.net/2013/06/30/with-journalism-persecuted-t...
        aet 13y ago
        I think it is a stretch calling him a journalist. I would consider him an activist.
        marvin 13y ago
        Maybe. But the sentiment is there. This is a slippery slope, and the US is on its way down.
        malandrew 13y ago
        Newsflash: Journalism has evolved. Technology changes things. There is more journalism done today by "activists" and "bloggers" than the mainstream media. You can tell just by watching the mainstream media and checking where they get a lot of their "scoops" from. The blogosphere is the new AP. It is now economically feasible to publish the entirety of recently public primary documents.
        aet 13y ago
  - flyinRyan 13y ago
    >Even if you exaggerate the known Gestapo spying by one or two orders of a magnitude, Germany is nowhere near becoming a totalitarian state Everyone believes this before and while it is actually happening. The US already has literally all required elements. All that is missing is scale.
    - bayesianhorse 13y ago
      You are severely misquoting me, to the point of outright lying. I don't believe it is useful to level accusations on a society based on such simplistic hand waving. The details are important. The scale is important. On this very small scale there is significant resistance, what would you expect when the scale widens? In a democracy, dissent is usually oscillatory. It will rise as public opinion takes a for all practical purposes random walk in some direction, and the people in power, who are necessarily few, develop into another direction. Then there's a bang, be it an election, an accident, a scandal, or something like Fukushima prompting the German exit from nuclear power, and "dissent" is incorporated into power, lowering the amplitude of discontent.
      - flyinRyan 13y ago
        I'm misquoting you? I copied your line exactly... You can look right above and see it there unless you've edited it.
- joonix 13y ago
  People never care until they are hungry. Empty stomaches spark revolutions. Vast majority of Americans still have jobs.
  - haakon 13y ago
    "Every society is only three meals away from revolution."
essayist 13y ago
Depending on your definitions of "huge" and "no one", here ya go: http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth/ http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth/
- mrmekon 13y ago
  At the time of this comment, r/restorethefourth has 19,511 subscribers. The US has a population of approximately 319 million (WolframAlpha estimate). We are the 0.00612 percent!
tripzilch 13y ago
> I feel like there should be huge protests about the NSA situation right now in the US Weren't you all going to protest on july 4th? Tomorrow?
bobwaycott 13y ago
http://www.restorethefourth.net http://www.restorethefourth.net

by jneal 13y ago

marvin 13y ago

This indifference of the "average Joe" is a major trait of totalitarianism. I never thought I would say this, and I'm actually afraid of saying it out loud because it sounds like hyperbole. But the way I see it, the USA is becoming a totalitarian state. It won't look like any previous totalitarian regime, but many of the hallmarks are there.

bayesianhorse 13y ago
Even if you exaggerate the known NSA spying by one or two orders of a magnitude, the US is nowhere near becoming a totalitarian state.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  the fact is that all the elements are there to make it into one.　A huge government, a large military force, constant spying, a major disrespect for basic constitutional rights, and now it's just about how fast it slides.
- marvin 13y ago
  Here are some examples of the "hallmarks of totalitarianism" I see in the United States. Read it and tell me that this is nowhere near totalitarianism. Tell me: what exactly is missing, and how much? Indiscriminate spying and privacy violation. Selective execution of citizens with no trial or oversight. Secret courts. Gag orders for oversight initiatives. World record in incarceration. Lifetime prison sentences for non-violent offenses. Indefinite, extrajudicial detention of prisoners. Torture. The use of plea bargains to persuade a guilty plea. Use of paramilitary forces (SWAT teams) to apprehend non-violent suspects. Asset freezes, with the consequence of rendering a fair trial impossible. Systematic persecution of whistleblowers, even those who follow the "chain of command". Harsh limits on legal protests ("free speech zones"). Persecution of investigative journalists. Overtly propagandic statements in the news media (referring to, for instance, CNN's very particular use of language in the Snowden case).
  - aet 13y ago
    I notice you list persecution of investigative journalists. What case were you thinking about?
    - marvin 13y ago
      Barrett Brown is the first name that comes to mind. Julian Assange is arguably in the same camp, at least partially. There has also been a sentiment that Glenn Greenwald should be prosecuted for his role in the Snowden case, albit not by government officials. The US does not systematically persecute investigative journalists, at least not yet. But the sentiment is there, and there are cases that have crossed the line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Brown http://falkvinge.net/2013/06/30/with-journalism-persecuted-the-united-states-is-now-at-event-horizon-to-a-police-state/ http://falkvinge.net/2013/06/30/with-journalism-persecuted-t...
      - aet 13y ago
        I think it is a stretch calling him a journalist. I would consider him an activist.
        marvin 13y ago
        Maybe. But the sentiment is there. This is a slippery slope, and the US is on its way down.
        malandrew 13y ago
        Newsflash: Journalism has evolved. Technology changes things. There is more journalism done today by "activists" and "bloggers" than the mainstream media. You can tell just by watching the mainstream media and checking where they get a lot of their "scoops" from. The blogosphere is the new AP. It is now economically feasible to publish the entirety of recently public primary documents.
        aet 13y ago
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  >Even if you exaggerate the known Gestapo spying by one or two orders of a magnitude, Germany is nowhere near becoming a totalitarian state Everyone believes this before and while it is actually happening. The US already has literally all required elements. All that is missing is scale.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    You are severely misquoting me, to the point of outright lying. I don't believe it is useful to level accusations on a society based on such simplistic hand waving. The details are important. The scale is important. On this very small scale there is significant resistance, what would you expect when the scale widens? In a democracy, dissent is usually oscillatory. It will rise as public opinion takes a for all practical purposes random walk in some direction, and the people in power, who are necessarily few, develop into another direction. Then there's a bang, be it an election, an accident, a scandal, or something like Fukushima prompting the German exit from nuclear power, and "dissent" is incorporated into power, lowering the amplitude of discontent.
    - flyinRyan 13y ago
      I'm misquoting you? I copied your line exactly... You can look right above and see it there unless you've edited it.
joonix 13y ago
People never care until they are hungry. Empty stomaches spark revolutions. Vast majority of Americans still have jobs.
- haakon 13y ago
  "Every society is only three meals away from revolution."

essayist 13y ago

Depending on your definitions of "huge" and "no one", here ya go: http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth/ http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth/

mrmekon 13y ago
At the time of this comment, r/restorethefourth has 19,511 subscribers. The US has a population of approximately 319 million (WolframAlpha estimate). We are the 0.00612 percent!

tripzilch 13y ago

> I feel like there should be huge protests about the NSA situation right now in the US Weren't you all going to protest on july 4th? Tomorrow?

bobwaycott 13y ago

http://www.restorethefourth.net http://www.restorethefourth.net