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Personally, I would rather us automate away all the jobs, including all the BART ones. The sooner society eliminates as many jobs as possible, the sooner we'll

Personally, I would rather us automate away all the jobs, including all the BART ones. The sooner society eliminates as many jobs as possible, the sooner we'll get to a impasse where a minimum guaranteed salary is the only way for society to move forward. The longer the transition takes, the more painful it will be.

btipling 13y ago
Automation will not decrease the value that BART brings to the bay area and it will not eliminate all positions, it will simply concentrate that value in fewer individuals who could also demand high pay.
- malandrew 13y ago
  "Automation will not decrease the value that BART brings to the bay area..." But it may increase the value by being more efficient/effective. "and it will not eliminate all positions," Nothing wrong with that. I would imagine that we'd at least try to do the best we can. "it will simply concentrate that value in fewer individuals who could also demand high pay." I don't see why that is a problem that is any worse than the status quo. People in the BART are not paid according to the value BART brings, they are paid what the market will bear, with one side of that market bargaining collectively as a union. The same value divided by half as many employees should have no bearing on the salaries plus benefits paid out to employees.
lcc 13y ago
/s? Maybe you've never taken public transportation in a major city. Riding the BART can be sketchy enough as it is - I've witnessed muggings in broad daylight. I don't think many people would feel safe enough to take the BART if there weren't drivers and attendants around to dissuade the worst of it.
- malandrew 13y ago
  I take it all the time. Never seen a mugging on public transit, not even in São Paulo, where more of the people I know have been mugged at some point. Anyways, automation would free up more budget for people and automated solutions focused solely on safety. I can't imagine it'd be that hard to devise a solution that lets few employees observe most of the stations and then trigger some sort of lockdown where a mugging occurs. The computer vision heuristics for focusing the attention of a CCTV monitoring station could probably consider things like: (1) Show locations with a sparse number of people occupying the space. (2) Based on walking gait over time, cluster humans together as related (Two people walking together side by side are probably together) (3) Place importance on humans walking alone (4) Place importance on humans walking alone that are about to "intercept" another human walking alone. (5) Use head and eye position and gait speed changes to determine intent to intercept by assuming a gaze heuristic is being used by the mugger. An operating watching the live videos with focus would then make a call of whether of not a mugging has occurred or probably has occurred. They would then dispatch an image of the mugger and muggee directly to the phones of a the nearest officer or two that can investigate. The system would tracker the mugger and muggee across several video feeds. These are just a few ideas on how greater safety can be fully automated.
  - russgray 13y ago
    After step 5, I was sure you were about to say that a remote operator could then activate the nearest turret and shoot the mugger.
    - malandrew 13y ago
      I was just describing what could already be done mostly via software, and that would be easily transferrable (read: sellable) to other subway systems and places with mugging problems. The LAPD has a system that triangulates bullet shot sounds and dispatches police officers to the approximate location of the shot. This isn't that different.

btipling 13y ago

Automation will not decrease the value that BART brings to the bay area and it will not eliminate all positions, it will simply concentrate that value in fewer individuals who could also demand high pay.

malandrew 13y ago
"Automation will not decrease the value that BART brings to the bay area..." But it may increase the value by being more efficient/effective. "and it will not eliminate all positions," Nothing wrong with that. I would imagine that we'd at least try to do the best we can. "it will simply concentrate that value in fewer individuals who could also demand high pay." I don't see why that is a problem that is any worse than the status quo. People in the BART are not paid according to the value BART brings, they are paid what the market will bear, with one side of that market bargaining collectively as a union. The same value divided by half as many employees should have no bearing on the salaries plus benefits paid out to employees.

lcc 13y ago

/s? Maybe you've never taken public transportation in a major city. Riding the BART can be sketchy enough as it is - I've witnessed muggings in broad daylight. I don't think many people would feel safe enough to take the BART if there weren't drivers and attendants around to dissuade the worst of it.

malandrew 13y ago
I take it all the time. Never seen a mugging on public transit, not even in São Paulo, where more of the people I know have been mugged at some point. Anyways, automation would free up more budget for people and automated solutions focused solely on safety. I can't imagine it'd be that hard to devise a solution that lets few employees observe most of the stations and then trigger some sort of lockdown where a mugging occurs. The computer vision heuristics for focusing the attention of a CCTV monitoring station could probably consider things like: (1) Show locations with a sparse number of people occupying the space. (2) Based on walking gait over time, cluster humans together as related (Two people walking together side by side are probably together) (3) Place importance on humans walking alone (4) Place importance on humans walking alone that are about to "intercept" another human walking alone. (5) Use head and eye position and gait speed changes to determine intent to intercept by assuming a gaze heuristic is being used by the mugger. An operating watching the live videos with focus would then make a call of whether of not a mugging has occurred or probably has occurred. They would then dispatch an image of the mugger and muggee directly to the phones of a the nearest officer or two that can investigate. The system would tracker the mugger and muggee across several video feeds. These are just a few ideas on how greater safety can be fully automated.
- russgray 13y ago
  After step 5, I was sure you were about to say that a remote operator could then activate the nearest turret and shoot the mugger.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    I was just describing what could already be done mostly via software, and that would be easily transferrable (read: sellable) to other subway systems and places with mugging problems. The LAPD has a system that triangulates bullet shot sounds and dispatches police officers to the approximate location of the shot. This isn't that different.