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I am on page 60 where train operators and station agents are making $122 000. The difference between "workers" and manager salaries is about 4x, pretty low com

by emanuer 13y ago

I am on page 60 where train operators and station agents are making $122 000. The difference between "workers" and manager salaries is about 4x, pretty low compared to the private sector. I find the salaries to be outrageously high, even factoring in that we are talking about the Bay Area & San Francisco. Considering that the average age of BART's cars is 30 years [1], the money seems better spend on updating the equipment. [1] http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/bart-moved-update-rapidly-aging-fleet-train-cars/nYKGq/ http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/bart-moved-update-rapidl...

mc32 13y ago
At this rate, something's has to give. If people (riders) realize what the salaries are and compare that to the service they get in return, they should ask for BaRT employees to become more efficient, given their salaries, else BaRT emps will price themselves out and automation will become more and more viable option, despite the political obstacle. So, yeah, I agree, they should use this money toward upgrades and or service expansion, maybe invest in an additional track smoother[1]. And, as someone said below, they need to realize that they are a service organization and act like one. [1]http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BAY-AREA-Softening-the-screech-along-BART-rail-2552642.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BAY-AREA-Softening-the...
- samstave 13y ago
  I've been in more than a few verbal altercations with station agents at almost every downtown SF BART station, where, when going from the platform to the street via the elevator due to having a stroller - am confronted with a disgusting and unbearable stench of urine and other fluids in the elevators. I hit the emergency call button and demand they clean the elevators. I get a god damned attitude from the station agents as though its not their problem. Then who the fark's problem is it. The cost of BART and the service on gets - particularly the hygienic risk - is unacceptable. CLEAN THE DAMN ELEVATORS!
  - jeiting 13y ago
    Demanding somebody to do anything will probably not get you very far.
  - mc32 13y ago
    The elevators are disgraceful (old, slow, faulty and small) and unhygienic, for sure. They are routinely urinated on and defecated on by mentally unbalanced people who need care (but there are politics with that too). So it's not totally BaRT employees' fault but the situation needs to be managed better and the facilities upgraded for modern transportation (elderly, people with strollers, people with luggage). One measly elevator per station (and two escalators) does not cut it for the volume of people they handle hourly/daily.
    - samstave 13y ago
      We have self-cleaning-steam-cleansed public toilets. We need the same thing in an elevator.
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    They can't. You can hire a full-time person whose sole job is to stand by the elevator and clean it every five minutes and it still won't be clean. The state of San Francisco's transportation system, whether it's BART or MUNI, is a reflection of the city and its problems, not just of the transit system itself. I sincerely hope you noticed the homeless and mentally-ill that are everywhere in the city before you noticed the elevators they shit in. Just like human shit clogging up and breaking down escalators (true story, I wish I jest), it is BART's problem, but BART and its employees are more or less powerless against it. When you have a veritable army of homeless and addicts inhabiting your city, there is not much you can do besides stay in that booth. If you would like functional elevators that aren't biohazard zones, I'd suggest becoming involved locally and solving the problem at its root. I am confident you will get nowhere with clean elevators until you get somewhere with reducing the homeless and mentally-ill population.
    - ianb 13y ago
- justizin 13y ago
  It's difficult to speak about BART staff without using broad strokes. I think station agents are too adversarial and should have a performance measure based on that. I don't know how to do that in any way that is sane. I'm a programmer, and I don't want to ride to work on an automatic train. I don't much like BART police, and in fact I think the decision to have a private police force for BART should be revisited. These officers are often rejected based on psychological exams from departments like SFPD, OPD, and UCPD. They have higher entry salaries than workers who aren't armed, and while people on Facebook groups seem constantly to want them around with greater presence to admonish cyclists breaking silly rules or chasing naked acrobats, in fact the only thing they seem capable of doing is accidentally murdering people. You want upgrades? The maintenance team at BART wants safer working conditions to install the equipment you propose to purchase. With no raise during a period with 18% average cost of living increase - a low average all of us on HN know - I'm sure many of these hard working folks are concerned about having to move their families to neighborhoods with worse schools and crime while being asked to work longer hours, and called greedy for clocking overtime. Just to be clear I have no affiliation except that I have had some drinking buddies who are SEIU organizers. They're serious people who are very good at taking care of the lower wage employees around the world, and esp in places like the bay area with huge income disparity. http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_community_from_the_bart_workers http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_communi...
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Just out of curiosity, why would you not want to ride a fully automated train?
  - mc32 13y ago
    There are lots of systems with at least some lines with full automation.[1] I've been on some. They transport lots of people. I never had a problem on the ones I was on. I think if rapid transit is to take off and replace car culture (as a viable alternative), it needs to be affordable and has to go where people want to go. That means make BaRT more affordable and make it go more places --Van Ness, Geary corridors, go down to San Jose via El Camino develop el Camino down the peninsula for dense housing. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains
justizin 13y ago
Union mechanics update the equipment, and BART has been offering pay increases, which they also admit are not increases, preferentially to safety improvements. For instance, the lighting situation in the tunnels is unacceptable and has likely been involved in at least one worker death. BART workers have important jobs, evidenced by the pain we're experiencing as a region without them. That's what strikes are about. Would you appreciate your salary negotiation going something like this: "Hey, four years ago when the company and our customers were struggling, I accepted a pay freeze to cover essential costs to keep us afloat." "Thanks for that. We'd like you to start covering some of the costs of your benefits, though we're actually doing a good bit better. We're going to give you a raise that amounts to half of inflation in the most optimistic of light, and that will cover the new costs we're asking you to cover. We're going to do this so that we can go to the press and say that we offered you a raise, you're a bunch of ungrateful fucks, and look at how you've fucked all of the poor riders. Also, on top of that, all of the things you've asked us to purchase for the system that would increase worker safety are rejected or deferred - we don't think that should be a part of your negotiation, even if you're saying that you might be willing to accept the pay we're offering if we budged a bit more on these costs. Do you accept?" http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_community_from_the_bart_workers http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_communi...
- bobo13579 13y ago
  How would increasing the salaries of $100,000+ union workers improve safety conditions?
  - eightyone 13y ago
    Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy82ntr8HYI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy82ntr8HYI
    - CoffeeDregs 13y ago
      Word to the wise: don't waste your time on the video. The interviewer ("laborvideo") coaches the interviewees through their interviews. When they lose steam or wander off script, he helpfully coaches them back on topic with dramatic, inflammatory statements/questions. Oh, by the way, Fox News' coverage of the strike is also poor. News at 11!

by emanuer 13y ago

mc32 13y ago

At this rate, something's has to give. If people (riders) realize what the salaries are and compare that to the service they get in return, they should ask for BaRT employees to become more efficient, given their salaries, else BaRT emps will price themselves out and automation will become more and more viable option, despite the political obstacle. So, yeah, I agree, they should use this money toward upgrades and or service expansion, maybe invest in an additional track smoother[1]. And, as someone said below, they need to realize that they are a service organization and act like one. [1]http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BAY-AREA-Softening-the-screech-along-BART-rail-2552642.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BAY-AREA-Softening-the...

samstave 13y ago
I've been in more than a few verbal altercations with station agents at almost every downtown SF BART station, where, when going from the platform to the street via the elevator due to having a stroller - am confronted with a disgusting and unbearable stench of urine and other fluids in the elevators. I hit the emergency call button and demand they clean the elevators. I get a god damned attitude from the station agents as though its not their problem. Then who the fark's problem is it. The cost of BART and the service on gets - particularly the hygienic risk - is unacceptable. CLEAN THE DAMN ELEVATORS!
- jeiting 13y ago
  Demanding somebody to do anything will probably not get you very far.
- mc32 13y ago
  The elevators are disgraceful (old, slow, faulty and small) and unhygienic, for sure. They are routinely urinated on and defecated on by mentally unbalanced people who need care (but there are politics with that too). So it's not totally BaRT employees' fault but the situation needs to be managed better and the facilities upgraded for modern transportation (elderly, people with strollers, people with luggage). One measly elevator per station (and two escalators) does not cut it for the volume of people they handle hourly/daily.
  - samstave 13y ago
    We have self-cleaning-steam-cleansed public toilets. We need the same thing in an elevator.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  They can't. You can hire a full-time person whose sole job is to stand by the elevator and clean it every five minutes and it still won't be clean. The state of San Francisco's transportation system, whether it's BART or MUNI, is a reflection of the city and its problems, not just of the transit system itself. I sincerely hope you noticed the homeless and mentally-ill that are everywhere in the city before you noticed the elevators they shit in. Just like human shit clogging up and breaking down escalators (true story, I wish I jest), it is BART's problem, but BART and its employees are more or less powerless against it. When you have a veritable army of homeless and addicts inhabiting your city, there is not much you can do besides stay in that booth. If you would like functional elevators that aren't biohazard zones, I'd suggest becoming involved locally and solving the problem at its root. I am confident you will get nowhere with clean elevators until you get somewhere with reducing the homeless and mentally-ill population.
  - ianb 13y ago
justizin 13y ago
It's difficult to speak about BART staff without using broad strokes. I think station agents are too adversarial and should have a performance measure based on that. I don't know how to do that in any way that is sane. I'm a programmer, and I don't want to ride to work on an automatic train. I don't much like BART police, and in fact I think the decision to have a private police force for BART should be revisited. These officers are often rejected based on psychological exams from departments like SFPD, OPD, and UCPD. They have higher entry salaries than workers who aren't armed, and while people on Facebook groups seem constantly to want them around with greater presence to admonish cyclists breaking silly rules or chasing naked acrobats, in fact the only thing they seem capable of doing is accidentally murdering people. You want upgrades? The maintenance team at BART wants safer working conditions to install the equipment you propose to purchase. With no raise during a period with 18% average cost of living increase - a low average all of us on HN know - I'm sure many of these hard working folks are concerned about having to move their families to neighborhoods with worse schools and crime while being asked to work longer hours, and called greedy for clocking overtime. Just to be clear I have no affiliation except that I have had some drinking buddies who are SEIU organizers. They're serious people who are very good at taking care of the lower wage employees around the world, and esp in places like the bay area with huge income disparity. http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_community_from_the_bart_workers http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_communi...
- malandrew 13y ago
  Just out of curiosity, why would you not want to ride a fully automated train?
- mc32 13y ago
  There are lots of systems with at least some lines with full automation.[1] I've been on some. They transport lots of people. I never had a problem on the ones I was on. I think if rapid transit is to take off and replace car culture (as a viable alternative), it needs to be affordable and has to go where people want to go. That means make BaRT more affordable and make it go more places --Van Ness, Geary corridors, go down to San Jose via El Camino develop el Camino down the peninsula for dense housing. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains

justizin 13y ago

Union mechanics update the equipment, and BART has been offering pay increases, which they also admit are not increases, preferentially to safety improvements. For instance, the lighting situation in the tunnels is unacceptable and has likely been involved in at least one worker death. BART workers have important jobs, evidenced by the pain we're experiencing as a region without them. That's what strikes are about. Would you appreciate your salary negotiation going something like this: "Hey, four years ago when the company and our customers were struggling, I accepted a pay freeze to cover essential costs to keep us afloat." "Thanks for that. We'd like you to start covering some of the costs of your benefits, though we're actually doing a good bit better. We're going to give you a raise that amounts to half of inflation in the most optimistic of light, and that will cover the new costs we're asking you to cover. We're going to do this so that we can go to the press and say that we offered you a raise, you're a bunch of ungrateful fucks, and look at how you've fucked all of the poor riders. Also, on top of that, all of the things you've asked us to purchase for the system that would increase worker safety are rejected or deferred - we don't think that should be a part of your negotiation, even if you're saying that you might be willing to accept the pay we're offering if we budged a bit more on these costs. Do you accept?" http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_community_from_the_bart_workers http://www.keepbartrunning.com/an_open_letter_to_the_communi...

bobo13579 13y ago
How would increasing the salaries of $100,000+ union workers improve safety conditions?
- eightyone 13y ago
  Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy82ntr8HYI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy82ntr8HYI
  - CoffeeDregs 13y ago
    Word to the wise: don't waste your time on the video. The interviewer ("laborvideo") coaches the interviewees through their interviews. When they lose steam or wander off script, he helpfully coaches them back on topic with dramatic, inflammatory statements/questions. Oh, by the way, Fox News' coverage of the strike is also poor. News at 11!