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My company TMSOFT was recently sued by Lodsys in the eastern district of Texas. Again with this "eastern district of Texas". Might there be a way for the tech

My company TMSOFT was recently sued by Lodsys in the eastern district of Texas. Again with this "eastern district of Texas". Might there be a way for the tech community to punish this podunk little area for letting themselves become a thorn in everyone's side? Refuse to ship or sell there? Put something in the TOS that refuses all support for products used there? Seems like something needs to be done to get the attention of the residents of this area and let them know that their local court has been usurped by trolls and is creating a national nuisance. If they all woke up one morning to find that Netflix was out and they couldn't even google why, it might get their attention.

mpyne 13y ago
If that's a Federal circuit (which seems likely, [1]) then I don't think there's anything that the local Texans had to do with it one way or the other. It's a Federal circuit court that happens to be located in Texas, Texas doesn't actually appoint the judges who serve there. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_Eastern_District_of_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_fo...
- jongalloway2 13y ago
  Several articles indicate it's also the jurors: http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2010/03/east-texas-jurors-and-patent-litigation/ http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2010/03/east-texas-jurors-and-p... http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-east-texas-2013-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-... So I think the parent post might be on to something. Let's mess with Texas!
  - techsupporter 13y ago
    From your second linked article: "In East Texas, juries are often older people who have less experience with technology and tend to view large corporate defendants with suspicion..." First, most of these cases are deliberately filed in Marshall, TX, an out-of-the-way rural town that's not exactly renowned for its experience in IT. Second, all this proves is that patent troll lawyers can simply "baffle them with bullshit" and I don't think that this specific location matters. The Eastern District of Texas has a secondary court in Plano, and Plano has been home to a variety of technology companies. You'll notice they're not filing in Plano where they'd be far more likely to encounter potential jury members who are familiar with terms like "hyperlink" and "web sockets."
  - tokenizerrr 13y ago
    Juries just seem like a terrible idea in general. Let's put more non-knowledgeable people in positions of power!
    - rayiner 13y ago
      The purpose of a court isn't to get the best answer. Its to get a decent answer while resolving the matter with finality. An adverse opinion of experts can be accused of bias and other things that can cause the conflict to continue to fester. The opinion of a group of layman cannot be attacked that way.
      - tokenizerrr 13y ago
        Instead they can be attacked about having no clue what they are talking about, which seems to be the case for many subjects. > An adverse opinion of experts can be accused of bias and other things that can cause the conflict to continue to fester Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this comment thread and the parent's article doing exactly that? To quote from [1]: > And juries in East Texas like to hand out big awards to plaintiffs, jury consultant Julie Blackman has written for the Jury Expert blog. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-east-texas-2013-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-...
        rayiner 13y ago
        The jury isn't charged with "having a clue." It is charged with deciding what happened and who to believe. The judge, the lawyers, and the experts are charged with understanding the problem and spoon-feeding it to the jury. The idea is that if you can't explain to a group of ordinary people why you should win, its hard to say that you really deserve to win. You can call the jury stupid, but stupidity doesn't bias a jury against you. And any other jury would have been just as stupid. With experts its different. You can accuse an expert of being biased or interested (because experts are usually in the same industry as the litigants). You can claim that you would have won, if only you had a different expert.
  - Camillo 13y ago
    The standard for novelty in patents requires that the invention not be obvious to a person skilled in the relevant field. The patent filing itself is required to describe the invention in enough detail that it can be understood by a person with ordinary skill in the field. What is the logic, then, behind having random laymen as jurors in patent cases? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a jury of people skilled in the relevant field?
- rayiner 13y ago
  Its a federal district court (trial court), not a circuit court (appeals court) (some systems, e.g. Cook county, call their trial courts circuit courts; it dates back to times when judges would ride circuit on horseback to different courthouses). The judges are appointed by the president, but on recommendation of Texas senators, and the juries are sourced from the local population. The area is known for its plaintiff friendly juries.
DannyBee 13y ago
EDTX as a venue is already a mostly solved problem. Rules/laws were changed in the past few years to make venue transfers more sane, so you can get out of EDTX. The federal circuit, in a fit of sanity, smacked EDTX down a few times for disallowing venue transfers, and there you go. Since then, i believe a district in delaware has almost taken the lead (since that is where most companies are registered)
mherdeg 13y ago
Hmm. If you really wanted to "stop feeding the troll", you could make it more expensive for people to give companies like Lodsys money. That is, you could apply those "refuse to ship or sell there" tactics to deny business to companies who are Lodsys licensees. According to http://www.lodsys.com/-licensees.html http://www.lodsys.com/-licensees.html those licensees include Ooma, Roku, Box, Photobucket, Surveymonkey, Oracle, Qualcomm, Delta Airlines, the Cleveland Clinic, and Office Depot, among plenty of other familiar names. If your choice is between "settle for $1" or "expensive litigation", the choice that maximizes shareholder value is fairly clear. If your choice is between "settle for $1 and now you're blacklisted from using the following X products" and "expensive litigation", maybe the calculus changes a little and you are more free to make a decision that you really wanted to (but couldn't justify to your board).
walshemj 13y ago
Move your business out of Texas and/or have the SV VC community blacklist any company based in that state.
incision 13y ago
Along these lines, I've wondered if a company that is being asked to pay, paying or has paid them could engage customers via a "Troll Tax" (not necessarily phrased that way of course) line item on on their bills/shopping cart totals? Seems like it would be a great way to raise attention around a practice that most reasonable people find despicable. I'd guess that folks with existing agreements/settlements might be barred from such things, but if a highly visible company were to do this while a case is pending I'd think it could be effective.

mpyne 13y ago

If that's a Federal circuit (which seems likely, [1]) then I don't think there's anything that the local Texans had to do with it one way or the other. It's a Federal circuit court that happens to be located in Texas, Texas doesn't actually appoint the judges who serve there. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_Eastern_District_of_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_fo...

jongalloway2 13y ago
Several articles indicate it's also the jurors: http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2010/03/east-texas-jurors-and-patent-litigation/ http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2010/03/east-texas-jurors-and-p... http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-east-texas-2013-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-... So I think the parent post might be on to something. Let's mess with Texas!
- techsupporter 13y ago
  From your second linked article: "In East Texas, juries are often older people who have less experience with technology and tend to view large corporate defendants with suspicion..." First, most of these cases are deliberately filed in Marshall, TX, an out-of-the-way rural town that's not exactly renowned for its experience in IT. Second, all this proves is that patent troll lawyers can simply "baffle them with bullshit" and I don't think that this specific location matters. The Eastern District of Texas has a secondary court in Plano, and Plano has been home to a variety of technology companies. You'll notice they're not filing in Plano where they'd be far more likely to encounter potential jury members who are familiar with terms like "hyperlink" and "web sockets."
- tokenizerrr 13y ago
  Juries just seem like a terrible idea in general. Let's put more non-knowledgeable people in positions of power!
  - rayiner 13y ago
    The purpose of a court isn't to get the best answer. Its to get a decent answer while resolving the matter with finality. An adverse opinion of experts can be accused of bias and other things that can cause the conflict to continue to fester. The opinion of a group of layman cannot be attacked that way.
    - tokenizerrr 13y ago
      Instead they can be attacked about having no clue what they are talking about, which seems to be the case for many subjects. > An adverse opinion of experts can be accused of bias and other things that can cause the conflict to continue to fester Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this comment thread and the parent's article doing exactly that? To quote from [1]: > And juries in East Texas like to hand out big awards to plaintiffs, jury consultant Julie Blackman has written for the Jury Expert blog. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-east-texas-2013-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-patent-plaintiffs-win-in-...
      - rayiner 13y ago
        The jury isn't charged with "having a clue." It is charged with deciding what happened and who to believe. The judge, the lawyers, and the experts are charged with understanding the problem and spoon-feeding it to the jury. The idea is that if you can't explain to a group of ordinary people why you should win, its hard to say that you really deserve to win. You can call the jury stupid, but stupidity doesn't bias a jury against you. And any other jury would have been just as stupid. With experts its different. You can accuse an expert of being biased or interested (because experts are usually in the same industry as the litigants). You can claim that you would have won, if only you had a different expert.
- Camillo 13y ago
  The standard for novelty in patents requires that the invention not be obvious to a person skilled in the relevant field. The patent filing itself is required to describe the invention in enough detail that it can be understood by a person with ordinary skill in the field. What is the logic, then, behind having random laymen as jurors in patent cases? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a jury of people skilled in the relevant field?
rayiner 13y ago
Its a federal district court (trial court), not a circuit court (appeals court) (some systems, e.g. Cook county, call their trial courts circuit courts; it dates back to times when judges would ride circuit on horseback to different courthouses). The judges are appointed by the president, but on recommendation of Texas senators, and the juries are sourced from the local population. The area is known for its plaintiff friendly juries.

DannyBee 13y ago

EDTX as a venue is already a mostly solved problem. Rules/laws were changed in the past few years to make venue transfers more sane, so you can get out of EDTX. The federal circuit, in a fit of sanity, smacked EDTX down a few times for disallowing venue transfers, and there you go. Since then, i believe a district in delaware has almost taken the lead (since that is where most companies are registered)

mherdeg 13y ago

Hmm. If you really wanted to "stop feeding the troll", you could make it more expensive for people to give companies like Lodsys money. That is, you could apply those "refuse to ship or sell there" tactics to deny business to companies who are Lodsys licensees. According to http://www.lodsys.com/-licensees.html http://www.lodsys.com/-licensees.html those licensees include Ooma, Roku, Box, Photobucket, Surveymonkey, Oracle, Qualcomm, Delta Airlines, the Cleveland Clinic, and Office Depot, among plenty of other familiar names. If your choice is between "settle for $1" or "expensive litigation", the choice that maximizes shareholder value is fairly clear. If your choice is between "settle for $1 and now you're blacklisted from using the following X products" and "expensive litigation", maybe the calculus changes a little and you are more free to make a decision that you really wanted to (but couldn't justify to your board).

walshemj 13y ago

Move your business out of Texas and/or have the SV VC community blacklist any company based in that state.

incision 13y ago

Along these lines, I've wondered if a company that is being asked to pay, paying or has paid them could engage customers via a "Troll Tax" (not necessarily phrased that way of course) line item on on their bills/shopping cart totals? Seems like it would be a great way to raise attention around a practice that most reasonable people find despicable. I'd guess that folks with existing agreements/settlements might be barred from such things, but if a highly visible company were to do this while a case is pending I'd think it could be effective.