4 ms·

Should LOPSA "lead the march" to DevOps?

8 points by MPSimmons 13y ago

beat 13y ago
Wow, that's a lot of different directions all in one discussion! Anyway, it seems to me that DevOps is more about management than technique. It starts with management giving permission and direction for development and operations teams to work closely together. Once the wall comes down, then technical improvements can be made. But first and foremost, it requires direct management support, particularly in large, complex organizations where development and operations are separated by several layers of management.
- MPSimmons 13y ago
  What do you think the right way is to start that transition? edit I should say that I'm on the Ops side, and in the past, I've been in what would have been a very good candidate organization for a DevOps environment. I just always had problems convincing the developers to share information with me, and I could get them to have no interest in anything that I was doing. I guess I didn't know how to broach the gap.
  - beat 13y ago
    That gets to where I said management needs to give not only permission, but direction. Most developers have no clue about operational needs, and don't really want one, and they can be very resistance. And vice versa for ops staff. So it's not enough for management to just get out of the way - there will be some pushing to do, and lots of Corncob antipattern issues. I've spent most of my career as what a colleague called a "one man devops team", basically serving as a sympathetic liaison to both sides. The root cause of the problem is organizational walls between dev and ops, but the industry-wide result is a sort of mutual distrust and even contempt.
ke4qqq 13y ago
If it doesn't, then LOPSA will rapidly become irrelevant IMO. Times are changing, and just like the move to x86 servers, and virtualization, the DevOps culture and it's resulting tools are an inevitable shift.
- WDennis 13y ago
  I think you mean "remain irrelevant"... 10 years in and what has LOPSA to show for itself... Hopefully it can become relevant by taking a leadership position on something like this.

8 points by MPSimmons 13y ago

beat 13y ago

Wow, that's a lot of different directions all in one discussion! Anyway, it seems to me that DevOps is more about management than technique. It starts with management giving permission and direction for development and operations teams to work closely together. Once the wall comes down, then technical improvements can be made. But first and foremost, it requires direct management support, particularly in large, complex organizations where development and operations are separated by several layers of management.

MPSimmons 13y ago
What do you think the right way is to start that transition? edit I should say that I'm on the Ops side, and in the past, I've been in what would have been a very good candidate organization for a DevOps environment. I just always had problems convincing the developers to share information with me, and I could get them to have no interest in anything that I was doing. I guess I didn't know how to broach the gap.
- beat 13y ago
  That gets to where I said management needs to give not only permission, but direction. Most developers have no clue about operational needs, and don't really want one, and they can be very resistance. And vice versa for ops staff. So it's not enough for management to just get out of the way - there will be some pushing to do, and lots of Corncob antipattern issues. I've spent most of my career as what a colleague called a "one man devops team", basically serving as a sympathetic liaison to both sides. The root cause of the problem is organizational walls between dev and ops, but the industry-wide result is a sort of mutual distrust and even contempt.

ke4qqq 13y ago

If it doesn't, then LOPSA will rapidly become irrelevant IMO. Times are changing, and just like the move to x86 servers, and virtualization, the DevOps culture and it's resulting tools are an inevitable shift.

WDennis 13y ago
I think you mean "remain irrelevant"... 10 years in and what has LOPSA to show for itself... Hopefully it can become relevant by taking a leadership position on something like this.