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"While the reps fight for more money or something..." ? really? "or something?" that's your argument here? We have a constitutional right to strike in the u

"While the reps fight for more money or something..." ? really? "or something?" that's your argument here? We have a constitutional right to strike in the united states. Getting mad at people who get paid less than you for exercising that right--only because it disrupts your pampered existence-- is the height of selfishness. Let me set you straight: Unions vote on striking. It is not the leadership who decides. So the workers who are indeed taking a pay cut for what they believe is right, made this decision. They had been without pay raises for 5 years. Assumptions that "anyone" can do the job are not based in reality, but a sense of arrogance that the people who do the jobs are somewhat beneath the gods of programming. Really, sometimes the ignorance displayed on hacker news is embarrassing to me as person proud to work in an industry that usually prizes intelligence.

jack-r-abbit 13y ago
WOW... someone really pissed in your corn flakes. But let me set you straight on something: I said "fight for more money or something" as in some thing other than money... like more vacation, more benefits, etc. They are fighting for more money or some other thing that is not money. And it is the reps that do the fighting. I don't think the entire union votes at the bargaining table. So I am not sure why you took offense to that argument. I am mad at the extortion that unions use to get what they want rather than individuals getting what they deserve based on their work product. If you truly deserve a raise after 5 years, you should request/receive one. You shouldn't have to have a union do that for you. You should get it based on your performance and the health of the company like most people do. And if you don't (and don't like it), you can suck it up or find another job like most people do. And, yes, unions do vote to strike. But not everyone votes "yes" so you can have many people forced to strike when they don't want to. The rest of your post assumes things I never said or thought. so... ya. Also, no need to attack me with condescension and call me ignorant. But since you did, I'll just disregard everything you said. Cool?
- davorak 13y ago
  "<blank> or something" is an english idiom/phrase that is dismissive of the blank and of the something else. The reader probably jumped to conclusions about your meaning/intention from your unintentional use of a phrase which is often used in a dismissive and derisive manner. It would have been interesting to read the discussion of you two getting to the root of why you hold such different beliefs about unions.
- melindajb 13y ago
  I'd love it if management of all stripes, private and public, paid workers what they deserve, but that just isn't going to happen. Money is a zero sum asset, giving to one is taking away from another. So without unions, there is no way these people could get what even some of them deserve. So be mad at the system, not the people doing what they can to survive. For most people "getting another job" isn't an option. Have you ever lived outside the bay area? Do you know what's happening in small towns all over america? What do 40 something factory workers with a high school diploma do in central Arkansas? What does a 50 year old BART train operator do in the Bay Area? Yes we shouldn't need unions, but we do. And the majority of workers do vote, and that's what being part of union is. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I guess those in the union who don't like the union can "suck it up and find another job like most people do, too." Yes, your comment "...or something" is an idiom that is derisive. It belies either your ignorance or laziness about the subject at hand. If you intended otherwise, you should have said that in the first place. Also, I've never heard a tech worker tell another tech worker that "they're overpaid." No, we all fight as hard as we can for what we have, and we should. And so should everyone else. But not everyone has the background, intelligence, training, or leverage to do so. Which most programmers will find out when Peter Thiel gets those offshore programming sweatshops going...
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Again with the attacks and name calling. You really are a very miserable person, aren't you?

jack-r-abbit 13y ago

WOW... someone really pissed in your corn flakes. But let me set you straight on something: I said "fight for more money or something" as in some thing other than money... like more vacation, more benefits, etc. They are fighting for more money or some other thing that is not money. And it is the reps that do the fighting. I don't think the entire union votes at the bargaining table. So I am not sure why you took offense to that argument. I am mad at the extortion that unions use to get what they want rather than individuals getting what they deserve based on their work product. If you truly deserve a raise after 5 years, you should request/receive one. You shouldn't have to have a union do that for you. You should get it based on your performance and the health of the company like most people do. And if you don't (and don't like it), you can suck it up or find another job like most people do. And, yes, unions do vote to strike. But not everyone votes "yes" so you can have many people forced to strike when they don't want to. The rest of your post assumes things I never said or thought. so... ya. Also, no need to attack me with condescension and call me ignorant. But since you did, I'll just disregard everything you said. Cool?

davorak 13y ago
"<blank> or something" is an english idiom/phrase that is dismissive of the blank and of the something else. The reader probably jumped to conclusions about your meaning/intention from your unintentional use of a phrase which is often used in a dismissive and derisive manner. It would have been interesting to read the discussion of you two getting to the root of why you hold such different beliefs about unions.
melindajb 13y ago
I'd love it if management of all stripes, private and public, paid workers what they deserve, but that just isn't going to happen. Money is a zero sum asset, giving to one is taking away from another. So without unions, there is no way these people could get what even some of them deserve. So be mad at the system, not the people doing what they can to survive. For most people "getting another job" isn't an option. Have you ever lived outside the bay area? Do you know what's happening in small towns all over america? What do 40 something factory workers with a high school diploma do in central Arkansas? What does a 50 year old BART train operator do in the Bay Area? Yes we shouldn't need unions, but we do. And the majority of workers do vote, and that's what being part of union is. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I guess those in the union who don't like the union can "suck it up and find another job like most people do, too." Yes, your comment "...or something" is an idiom that is derisive. It belies either your ignorance or laziness about the subject at hand. If you intended otherwise, you should have said that in the first place. Also, I've never heard a tech worker tell another tech worker that "they're overpaid." No, we all fight as hard as we can for what we have, and we should. And so should everyone else. But not everyone has the background, intelligence, training, or leverage to do so. Which most programmers will find out when Peter Thiel gets those offshore programming sweatshops going...
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  Again with the attacks and name calling. You really are a very miserable person, aren't you?