6 ms·

Show HN: iTunes for 3D printing

46 points by jschwartz11 13y ago

ecopoesis 13y ago
This seems a bit stupid. There are dozens, if not hundreds of different 3D printer varieties, each of which requires its own tuned slicer settings. Hell, I have to use different slicer settings depending on the filament manufacturer. What advantage is there in delivering a presliced models? Everyone has standardized on STL files for a reason.
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  I agree they should offer STL models for people who want to do the slicing themselves, but I do like the idea of providing presliced models that are tuned/tested for popular printers. EDIT: "We guarantee that if your print fails, you will be given as many opportunities as needed to re-print and get it perfect. L2L allows us to track the completion of every print." So I guess the purpose of a proprietary format is to restrict the number of times you can print a file? That's not going to work very well when you're interfacing with open source printers. I imagine it's trivial to slurp the gcode off the serial connection to the printer.
  - marcosscriven 13y ago
    I don't think they are providing a 'proprietary' format as such, it's just gcode tuned to different printers. Reverse engineering the head paths to produce a mesh would be pretty difficult (though not impossible)
    - tlrobinson 13y ago
      That language I quoted implies you're only allowed one successful print per purchase.
      - BeccaCory 13y ago
        What you're buying is a single-print, so what you're saying is correct. If something's gone wrong, you can re-print as many times as needed, but once the product is complete, then your print is done.
        marcosscriven 13y ago
        But that's nothing to do with the file format though right? I mean, it's just the end user has to be honest no?
    - marcosscriven 13y ago
      I think the reason they give you the opportunity to download another file is simply so that the gcode can be tweeked (for variable such as layer height, hotend temp, max acceleration of head etc.). It could be, for instance, that with your particular filament the gcode doesn't tell the hot end to get hot enough, and you end up with layers splitting. Or worse, a huge tangle of melted filament.
- snom380 13y ago
  There isnt an advantage other than adding a DRM layer so you can't print as many as you like. It says in the help page that you can restart the print as many times as you like, but after 80% you have to mail them to get another try. This seems to solve a problem the sellers have, not the customers (printers). (Nevermind that you can just grab the gcode output and save it for later if you want to)
jason_slack 13y ago
The "iTunes for 3D printing"? Are you trying to rank your app up with the importance of iTunes? Or are you trying use iTunes to state your app is essential? Weird.
- lifeformed 13y ago
  It has nothing to do with the success of iTunes, just the digital storefront idea.
  - jason_slack 13y ago
    I dont read it that way. There are more digital store fronts besides iTunes. Why didn't OP choose one of those? The idea is interesting but the way the OP is comparing it to iTunes makes me feel like this is a toy idea.
    - lifeformed 13y ago
      Well, it's the most recognizable one. I don't see why he should pick something more obscure.
      - jason_slack 13y ago
        I can see that too. iTunes I think has an implied meaning. It was (arguably) revolutionary and is way more than a "store front". It was a way to really integrate iPods with software to make them seamlessly integrate with the OS. Now, today it is a lot more. Like I said I read it differently that what the OP meant to imply perhaps. Maybe if OP has said "ITunes Store Front for 3D Printing"
        lifeformed 13y ago
        Maybe "Steam for 3D printing"? Well, I guess Steam has social features too... How about just "A store front for 3D printing."
    - 13y ago
jheitzeb 13y ago
I wrote a post back when they launched to help explain how they differ from markets like Shapeways and about some of the user experience problems in 3D printing that they are trying to solve. Check it out: http://www.hackthings.com/layer-by-layer-launches-an-easier-marketplace/ http://www.hackthings.com/layer-by-layer-launches-an-easier-...
joshdance 13y ago
Probably a rookie question, but what is the difference between a print and a file? I assume people doing 3D printing will know, but the distinction is lost on me.
- ecopoesis 13y ago
  You start with a model: usually a STL file. People make these themselves or download them from Thingiverse. You then slice the file. This creates a gcode file, which is a set of instructions telling the machine how to move and when to print. Gcode instructions are semi-standardized across printers. Depending on your material and your printer, you often need to change the settings in the slicer to get gcode that will create a good print on your printer. You can then use the gcode to print if you printer is connected to a computer. Or you can put it on an SD card and put that in the printer if it's standalone. Some printers (like MakerBots) require further processing of the gcode file into their own formats.
lukejduncan 13y ago
It's an interesting approach. As a nerd my initial reaction to revolt at the idea of DRM'ed 3D printing. That said, I get it and it's a novel approach. As someone else in the comments pointed out it's also probably really easy to get around with open hardware / open source 3D printers. But maybe that's a problem you want to have at this point in the game? Kudos on the launch
marcosscriven 13y ago
I started one of these 3D file sharing sites a couple of months ago now (http://www.fabfabbers.com/ http://www.fabfabbers.com/) But having done it, I'm not sure it's really the way to go. There's a proliferation of them now, and people are still preferring Thingiverse, because it still has that inertia. I think perhaps the next step is really more tools to make it easier to design things in 3D - as I think that's really the hard part for most people.
- mercnet 13y ago
  It would be nice if people listed the settings/materials that worked best for printing their uploaded models. I know each machine will always have a different calibration but sometimes hard numbers give me a good starting point.
  - marcosscriven 13y ago
    That's a good idea :)
- snom380 13y ago
  Actually, I think a good idea would be a 99designs kind of service. Maybe not today, but as 3D printing matures, there's going to be more people who just want to print somehthing custom or some broken part, than there are people willing to learn 3D modeling.
  - marcosscriven 13y ago
    Hmm yes that's a good idea too. The more I got into it though, the more I realised that really it's nothing about 3D printing as such - most people don't care any more about 3D printers than they care about injection moulding. Right now it's much more about getting something either customized or unique in some way, and printed on a professional SLS (or similar) printer. It's also more about useful materials such as metals and ceramic - that's where Shapeways have got it right I think.
    - 13y ago
marcosscriven 13y ago
I forgot to add, quite like the name 'Layer By Layer' :)
olalonde 13y ago
Somewhat off-topic: it would be cool there was an app to play "3D printer roulette". You would click a button and your printer would randomly print a 3D model fetched from the web. I bet I could spend hours playing that game.
- marcosscriven 13y ago
  If chat roulette were anything to go by, I'd imagine ending up with lots of rather rude objet ;)
  - marcosscriven 13y ago
    Actually, that idea is genius. Isn't, erm, 'adult' material what's credited with getting VHS off the ground?
AsymetricCom 13y ago
Why would anyone want an 'iTunes for 3D printing'?
- jason_slack 13y ago
  I said this below and was down voted for it. I think the OP has an interesting idea. I think just the choice of language comparison is what is throwing me.
- snom380 13y ago
  I could see why sellers would want it, and by extension customers would want it if some really beautiful models were for sale. Ref Shapeways vs thingiverse. I'm not sure now is the right time for it though, just like iTunes would have been dead in the water before MP3 players became widespread.
- marcosscriven 13y ago
  I guess it depends what aspects of iTunes. I think there's a market for selling designs for things which can be printed. Even better, a market for designs that can be customised and printed.
fudged71 13y ago
Calling it the "iTunes of 3D printing" is going to have big problems for you. iTunes means different things to different people. Some love it, some hate it. Some see it as a marketplace, others see it as a way to store their music. iTunes is not an MVP or a starting point. Choose a better way to communicate your product.

46 points by jschwartz11 13y ago

This seems a bit stupid. There are dozens, if not hundreds of different 3D printer varieties, each of which requires its own tuned slicer settings. Hell, I have to use different slicer settings depending on the filament manufacturer. What advantage is there in delivering a presliced models? Everyone has standardized on STL files for a reason.

tlrobinson 13y ago
I agree they should offer STL models for people who want to do the slicing themselves, but I do like the idea of providing presliced models that are tuned/tested for popular printers. EDIT: "We guarantee that if your print fails, you will be given as many opportunities as needed to re-print and get it perfect. L2L allows us to track the completion of every print." So I guess the purpose of a proprietary format is to restrict the number of times you can print a file? That's not going to work very well when you're interfacing with open source printers. I imagine it's trivial to slurp the gcode off the serial connection to the printer.
- marcosscriven 13y ago
  I don't think they are providing a 'proprietary' format as such, it's just gcode tuned to different printers. Reverse engineering the head paths to produce a mesh would be pretty difficult (though not impossible)
  - tlrobinson 13y ago
    That language I quoted implies you're only allowed one successful print per purchase.
    - BeccaCory 13y ago
      What you're buying is a single-print, so what you're saying is correct. If something's gone wrong, you can re-print as many times as needed, but once the product is complete, then your print is done.
      - marcosscriven 13y ago
        But that's nothing to do with the file format though right? I mean, it's just the end user has to be honest no?
  - marcosscriven 13y ago
    I think the reason they give you the opportunity to download another file is simply so that the gcode can be tweeked (for variable such as layer height, hotend temp, max acceleration of head etc.). It could be, for instance, that with your particular filament the gcode doesn't tell the hot end to get hot enough, and you end up with layers splitting. Or worse, a huge tangle of melted filament.
snom380 13y ago
There isnt an advantage other than adding a DRM layer so you can't print as many as you like. It says in the help page that you can restart the print as many times as you like, but after 80% you have to mail them to get another try. This seems to solve a problem the sellers have, not the customers (printers). (Nevermind that you can just grab the gcode output and save it for later if you want to)

jason_slack 13y ago

The "iTunes for 3D printing"? Are you trying to rank your app up with the importance of iTunes? Or are you trying use iTunes to state your app is essential? Weird.

lifeformed 13y ago
It has nothing to do with the success of iTunes, just the digital storefront idea.
- jason_slack 13y ago
  I dont read it that way. There are more digital store fronts besides iTunes. Why didn't OP choose one of those? The idea is interesting but the way the OP is comparing it to iTunes makes me feel like this is a toy idea.
  - lifeformed 13y ago
    Well, it's the most recognizable one. I don't see why he should pick something more obscure.
    - jason_slack 13y ago
      I can see that too. iTunes I think has an implied meaning. It was (arguably) revolutionary and is way more than a "store front". It was a way to really integrate iPods with software to make them seamlessly integrate with the OS. Now, today it is a lot more. Like I said I read it differently that what the OP meant to imply perhaps. Maybe if OP has said "ITunes Store Front for 3D Printing"
      - lifeformed 13y ago
        Maybe "Steam for 3D printing"? Well, I guess Steam has social features too... How about just "A store front for 3D printing."
  - 13y ago

jheitzeb 13y ago

I wrote a post back when they launched to help explain how they differ from markets like Shapeways and about some of the user experience problems in 3D printing that they are trying to solve. Check it out: http://www.hackthings.com/layer-by-layer-launches-an-easier-marketplace/ http://www.hackthings.com/layer-by-layer-launches-an-easier-...

joshdance 13y ago

Probably a rookie question, but what is the difference between a print and a file? I assume people doing 3D printing will know, but the distinction is lost on me.

ecopoesis 13y ago
You start with a model: usually a STL file. People make these themselves or download them from Thingiverse. You then slice the file. This creates a gcode file, which is a set of instructions telling the machine how to move and when to print. Gcode instructions are semi-standardized across printers. Depending on your material and your printer, you often need to change the settings in the slicer to get gcode that will create a good print on your printer. You can then use the gcode to print if you printer is connected to a computer. Or you can put it on an SD card and put that in the printer if it's standalone. Some printers (like MakerBots) require further processing of the gcode file into their own formats.

lukejduncan 13y ago

It's an interesting approach. As a nerd my initial reaction to revolt at the idea of DRM'ed 3D printing. That said, I get it and it's a novel approach. As someone else in the comments pointed out it's also probably really easy to get around with open hardware / open source 3D printers. But maybe that's a problem you want to have at this point in the game? Kudos on the launch

marcosscriven 13y ago

I started one of these 3D file sharing sites a couple of months ago now (http://www.fabfabbers.com/ http://www.fabfabbers.com/) But having done it, I'm not sure it's really the way to go. There's a proliferation of them now, and people are still preferring Thingiverse, because it still has that inertia. I think perhaps the next step is really more tools to make it easier to design things in 3D - as I think that's really the hard part for most people.

mercnet 13y ago
It would be nice if people listed the settings/materials that worked best for printing their uploaded models. I know each machine will always have a different calibration but sometimes hard numbers give me a good starting point.
- marcosscriven 13y ago
  That's a good idea :)
snom380 13y ago
Actually, I think a good idea would be a 99designs kind of service. Maybe not today, but as 3D printing matures, there's going to be more people who just want to print somehthing custom or some broken part, than there are people willing to learn 3D modeling.
- marcosscriven 13y ago
  Hmm yes that's a good idea too. The more I got into it though, the more I realised that really it's nothing about 3D printing as such - most people don't care any more about 3D printers than they care about injection moulding. Right now it's much more about getting something either customized or unique in some way, and printed on a professional SLS (or similar) printer. It's also more about useful materials such as metals and ceramic - that's where Shapeways have got it right I think.
  - 13y ago

marcosscriven 13y ago

I forgot to add, quite like the name 'Layer By Layer' :)

olalonde 13y ago

Somewhat off-topic: it would be cool there was an app to play "3D printer roulette". You would click a button and your printer would randomly print a 3D model fetched from the web. I bet I could spend hours playing that game.

marcosscriven 13y ago
If chat roulette were anything to go by, I'd imagine ending up with lots of rather rude objet ;)
- marcosscriven 13y ago
  Actually, that idea is genius. Isn't, erm, 'adult' material what's credited with getting VHS off the ground?

AsymetricCom 13y ago

Why would anyone want an 'iTunes for 3D printing'?

jason_slack 13y ago
I said this below and was down voted for it. I think the OP has an interesting idea. I think just the choice of language comparison is what is throwing me.
snom380 13y ago
I could see why sellers would want it, and by extension customers would want it if some really beautiful models were for sale. Ref Shapeways vs thingiverse. I'm not sure now is the right time for it though, just like iTunes would have been dead in the water before MP3 players became widespread.
marcosscriven 13y ago
I guess it depends what aspects of iTunes. I think there's a market for selling designs for things which can be printed. Even better, a market for designs that can be customised and printed.

fudged71 13y ago

Calling it the "iTunes of 3D printing" is going to have big problems for you. iTunes means different things to different people. Some love it, some hate it. Some see it as a marketplace, others see it as a way to store their music. iTunes is not an MVP or a starting point. Choose a better way to communicate your product.