4 ms·

Is anyone aware of studies conducted on differences (if there are any) on how much time women and men invest in doing something (math, programming, sciences) in

Is anyone aware of studies conducted on differences (if there are any) on how much time women and men invest in doing something (math, programming, sciences) in the long run? I suspect that although there is clearly no reason to believe that women are less capable than men, there are psychological differences on men's and women's willingness to spend time on different type of subjects. Also, on how they evaluate their accomplishments. Think of the mythical pizza-and-coke-debugging-nights in your own project no-one will ever use.

mherkender 13y ago
> there are psychological differences on men's and women's willingness to spend time on different type of subjects Citation needed? I've spent time with women in science and they seem pretty dogged in the pursuit of their goals. It seems to me that it has a lot more to do with cultural norms.
- DanBC 13y ago
  christianpascu is asking for the citation! They made an observation, and asked if there was any evidence to support that.
  - glomph 13y ago
    Making a sexist remark and asking for someone else to provide the evidence is not acceptable.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      I gently agree, except they did qualify their sexist remark. They are saying "This might be wrong; I don't have anything to support it; is there anything to support it?" which is a lot better than saying "Women can't do X because Y. Prove me wrong." > I suspect that although there is clearly no reason to believe and > Is anyone aware of studies conducted on differences (if there are any) [emphasis added]
  - cristianpascu 13y ago
    That was exactly my point. I am well aware of our propensity to biased personal conclusions. Many times I have been contradicted in my beliefs by actual data.
- gizmo686 13y ago
  I agree with your citation needed for such an extraordinary claim as parent's. However, I suspect that there is a selection bias in looking at women "in science". Because of social barriers to women entering science, those that do would tend to be the more driven ones, as the less driven ones, who might have entered science in a gender neutral world, would not have. I recall hearing that the Army used simmilar reasoning for lowering the academic requirements for black high-school graduates (relative to white ones), because they found that at the same level of academic achievement, the black ones tended to do better in the army. The common explanation for why this was the case was that because black students had more barriers than white students, they would have to be more qualified just to be able to have reached the same level.
rayiner 13y ago
> Think of the mythical pizza-and-coke-debugging-nights in your own project no-one will ever use. Something like 60% of all accountants and auditors and about 45-50% of Big 4 accountants are women. I struggle to think of a physiological difference that would make staring at hex dumps all night unpalatable for women but would make staring at ledgers all night reasonably palatable. I don't think that's the Occam's razor answer to that question.
- eitland 13y ago
  One of these jobs often rewards creativity. In the other creativity might get you fired or even jail time? (Have never seen job postings looking for creative accountants :-)
  - harryh 13y ago
    http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Ascension-Health-MSC/jobs/Senior-Accountant-5bbfdcafce9a25f4 http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Ascension-Health-MSC/jobs/Senior-A... "We respond to an ever-changing workplace by building a community of associates that are flexible, creative and innovative."
streptomycin 13y ago
Maybe semi-relevant: http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-04-16/are-there-too-many-women-doctors http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-04-16/are-there-too... Hard to say what's nature and what's nurture, though.
jberryman 13y ago
Most of the students at the conservatory I went to were women, and essentially all of them had been spending hours a day for 1-3 decades honing their skills. I guess my point is my experiences around women does not mesh with your theory.
- sentenza 13y ago
  With math-related fields it IMO boils down to this: From what I have seen in academia during the last few years (yes, anecdotal, sample size of about two dozen female PhD students), I'd say that women are sorted out at almost all stages of the engineering/sciences career path. By the time you are a PhD student or Postdoc, the weeding out has produced a situation in which the women that remain are on average better than the male PhD students, because only the most talented/determined stuck it out. Then most of them leave academia because they might at some point in the future want children, which is a 90% chance career-ender.

mherkender 13y ago

> there are psychological differences on men's and women's willingness to spend time on different type of subjects Citation needed? I've spent time with women in science and they seem pretty dogged in the pursuit of their goals. It seems to me that it has a lot more to do with cultural norms.

DanBC 13y ago
christianpascu is asking for the citation! They made an observation, and asked if there was any evidence to support that.
- glomph 13y ago
  Making a sexist remark and asking for someone else to provide the evidence is not acceptable.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    I gently agree, except they did qualify their sexist remark. They are saying "This might be wrong; I don't have anything to support it; is there anything to support it?" which is a lot better than saying "Women can't do X because Y. Prove me wrong." > I suspect that although there is clearly no reason to believe and > Is anyone aware of studies conducted on differences (if there are any) [emphasis added]
- cristianpascu 13y ago
  That was exactly my point. I am well aware of our propensity to biased personal conclusions. Many times I have been contradicted in my beliefs by actual data.
gizmo686 13y ago
I agree with your citation needed for such an extraordinary claim as parent's. However, I suspect that there is a selection bias in looking at women "in science". Because of social barriers to women entering science, those that do would tend to be the more driven ones, as the less driven ones, who might have entered science in a gender neutral world, would not have. I recall hearing that the Army used simmilar reasoning for lowering the academic requirements for black high-school graduates (relative to white ones), because they found that at the same level of academic achievement, the black ones tended to do better in the army. The common explanation for why this was the case was that because black students had more barriers than white students, they would have to be more qualified just to be able to have reached the same level.

rayiner 13y ago

> Think of the mythical pizza-and-coke-debugging-nights in your own project no-one will ever use. Something like 60% of all accountants and auditors and about 45-50% of Big 4 accountants are women. I struggle to think of a physiological difference that would make staring at hex dumps all night unpalatable for women but would make staring at ledgers all night reasonably palatable. I don't think that's the Occam's razor answer to that question.

eitland 13y ago
One of these jobs often rewards creativity. In the other creativity might get you fired or even jail time? (Have never seen job postings looking for creative accountants :-)
- harryh 13y ago
  http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Ascension-Health-MSC/jobs/Senior-Accountant-5bbfdcafce9a25f4 http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Ascension-Health-MSC/jobs/Senior-A... "We respond to an ever-changing workplace by building a community of associates that are flexible, creative and innovative."

streptomycin 13y ago

Maybe semi-relevant: http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-04-16/are-there-too-many-women-doctors http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-04-16/are-there-too... Hard to say what's nature and what's nurture, though.

jberryman 13y ago

Most of the students at the conservatory I went to were women, and essentially all of them had been spending hours a day for 1-3 decades honing their skills. I guess my point is my experiences around women does not mesh with your theory.

sentenza 13y ago
With math-related fields it IMO boils down to this: From what I have seen in academia during the last few years (yes, anecdotal, sample size of about two dozen female PhD students), I'd say that women are sorted out at almost all stages of the engineering/sciences career path. By the time you are a PhD student or Postdoc, the weeding out has produced a situation in which the women that remain are on average better than the male PhD students, because only the most talented/determined stuck it out. Then most of them leave academia because they might at some point in the future want children, which is a 90% chance career-ender.