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Python Tools for Visual Studio
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- pipboy3 13y agois there ruby equivalent?
- clone1018 13y agoAs for an IDE, RubyMine.
- shire 13y agoRubyMine is cool so is PyCharm.
- kayoone 13y agoand PHPStorm from the same company..all their IDEs are pretty awesome!
- shimms 13y agoWhich is made by the same developers as ReSharper, a popular add-on for Visual Studio. Using RubyMine now as a Rails dev, after years of Visual Studio use as a ASP.NET dev, and having the familiar ReSharper-like tools and interface in RubyMine is awesome. RubyMine is an incredibly powerful IDE (like most of the JetBrains IDEs), with lots of Ruby specific goodness.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- evilduck 13y agoThere's http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Products/Ruby-In-Steel/Ruby-In-Steel-Developer-Overview http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Products/Ruby-In-Steel/Ruby-In-... Never used it myself though, so I can't speak for it.
- drawkbox 13y agoI primarily use Sublime, TextMate or Komodo on Mac for python dev but would love to also use VS. I do run windows and do most dev on that under VS. Maybe one day VS will come to Mac, I know that doesn't follow the platform mission but would get some good traction for Visual Studio going forward and a little fire under Xcode for C/C++ dev on Mac. At this point both XCode and VS are pretty equal but XCode I also like and have no problem with. Both are unique to the OS though. Both are also extremely bloated but needed for C/C++ dev. Eclipse is also a bit cludgy. That python to native screenshot on the site looks intruiging. I do use MonoDevelop on Mac for Unity dev and it does support debugging but would love to use VS on Mac one day. All in all when I do python dev I like less in my IDE at times, just a good autocomplete/intellisense and I usually despise integrated source control into IDEs preferring to do it with outside tools such as terminal/cmd, sourcetree or tortoises. SCM integration in IDEs always seems to kill performance and gets out of sync, especially in the latest MonoDevelop (startup indexing kills the usefulness - http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/356129/monodevelop-performance-in-unity-4.html http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/356129/monodevelop-perf...).
- schrodinger 13y agoOne thing that drives me nuts in Xcode as opposed to VS is that the autocomplete only completes when you hit tab. I want it to compete when I hit a period or a space too like it does in VS! Considering you find them both basically equal, have you found a workaround for this or is it just not frustrating to you?
- drawkbox 13y agoUnfortunately no, just have to deal. Some use "CTRL + SPACE" or ESC or "CTRL + ," but it still doesn't do it very smart. VS autocomplete is still smarter and quicker it seems. I do like the greying auto complete of XCode as you type as sometimes the drop down gets in the way.
- schrodinger 13y agoGot ya. BTW - in Visual Studio if you hold down control while the autocomplete is open, it goes translucent so you can see your code behind it!
- jessaustin 13y agoI chuckled at: "Django (Python's Web Framework)". Someone has missed out on years of hand-wringing about our menagerie of frameworks.
- shanselman 13y ago;) The PTVS guys said they are going to add support for Flask and Bottle soon.
- CurtHagenlocher 13y agoThis doesn't even mention the most awesome feature of PTVS 2.0: mixed-mode debugging, which provides an integrated experience for debugging mixed Python/C processes. See https://pytools.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Mixed-mode%20debugging https://pytools.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Mixed-mode%20deb... for details. Disclaimer: I used to work on IronPython.
- _pmf_ 13y ago> This doesn't even mention the most awesome feature of PTVS 2.0: mixed-mode debugging, which provides an integrated experience for debugging mixed Python/C processes. That's really nice. I wish there would be something comparable for debugging JNI/Java code.
- jaegerpicker 13y agoThis times a thousand. Debugging ndk on Android is one of the worst development experiences I've ever had.
- bru 13y ago>[...] you're a hardcore PhD who wants mixed-language Python and C++ debugging [1] [...] It is mentioned. 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJaKQ94lBY&feature=c4-overview&list=UUpKEjPmLsl19ETchJLJj42g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJaKQ94lBY&feature=c4-overvi...
- stinos 13y agoAfaik that's exactly what the first all-in-your-face picture is showing? And man that is seriously awesome indeed.
- CurtHagenlocher 13y agoHah, you're right. A picture may be worth one thousand words, but Control-F "native" won't necessarily find it. Also, I apparently didn't search for "C++". sigh.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jahewson 13y agoThere are a lot of Python IDEs out there, some very good, such as IntelliJ IDEA. I'd prefer to see an objective comparison.
- 3327 13y agoSurely there must be some out there, but VS is a solid IDE its really hard to argue against it. Eclipse, VS they are benchmarks.
- moron4hire 13y agoIt's Scott Hanselman's blog. The entire point of it is to proselytize for MS products.
- shanselman 13y agoNot really, the blog is my side gig. I talk about lots of stuff, but since I'm in the MS dev space I lean in that direction. I work in Azure and ASP.NET as a PM, I'm not in marketing.
- smortaz 13y ago[PTVS project lead] Yup, try PyCharm, PyDev, Wing, Komodo, Spyder, ... I did a comparison last year (which I can't unfortunately share :( I can ask) -- bottom line, all pretty darn good, each has its strengths and weaknesses. Take away: it's a great time to be a Python dev on Windows (finally?). WRT to PTVS itself, the key feature is being VS based; the mixed-mode debug for example takes advantage of support in VS. But at the same time, if you're looking for a cross-platform, very very very lightweight tool, this isn't the IDE you're looking for.
- int_19h 13y agoIt really varies from area to area, and each has something that others don't. E.g. PyCharm is unique in supporting Cython, PTVS is now the only one with mixed-mode debugging (don't you wish those two were married in one IDE? ~) etc. In other areas like code editing, the differences are often qualitative. For example all Python IDEs have code completion, but try entering this in your favorite one: def f(x): def g(y): return x + y return g a = f(1)(2) b = f(3.0)(a) c = f(u'a')(str(b)) d = (a, b, c)[input()] And then see what completions it gives you for a., b. etc. It would be interesting if some independent third party would do a detailed point by point study and published it.
- amjith 13y agoDo people run django production sites on Windows? Not trolling, genuinely interested.
- mumphster 13y agoI currently maintain and run a big ol' Django project running on Apache/Windows/MSSQL (and some Oracle) here (university of Arizona). It's not that bad although myself and the other developer both use mac's so its annoying having to RDP in to do anything in a python shell.
- Ecio78 13y agoIf you only use the shell, can't you use something like an SSH daemon on Windows and ssh to it?
- icebraining 13y agoIs there any decent SSH daemon on Windows? And what shell does/would it run? cmd.exe?
- alyandon 13y agoSome people dislike it but I use Cygwin when I want access to the various unix standard tools on a Windows box (including the openssh daemon). http://www.cygwin.com/ http://www.cygwin.com/ The setup.exe is both the installer and the package manager.
- rbellio 13y agoI recommend trying out Mintty for Cygwin if you haven't already. I love it.
- toyg 13y agoHave you tried powershell remoting ? It's close.
- tonyplee 13y agoJust Vi or Vim for me. Used VS, VB, Eclips years back, but now back to Vi/Vim for embedded and server environment. Have not missed any of IDE features at all.
- winter_blue 13y agoWhat languages do you work with? Simple things like being able to jump to the definition of a function with a press of a button (esp. when working with a large unfamiliar code base) are indispensable for me.
- axomhacker 13y agoSublime Text 3 is still lightweight, fast and has awesome "jump to definition".
- zalew 13y agonot sure what vim has to do with visual studio, but you can jump to definition in vim f.ex using python mode https://github.com/klen/python-mode#default-keys https://github.com/klen/python-mode#default-keys
- thwest 13y agogrep is nice. its gnarly in template heavy c++, but so are all the tools. intellisense can't reliably provide navigation among all of the possible instantiations in your project. (esc;qgrep -rn thing .) is faster for me than reaching for the mouse.
- int_19h 13y ago>> its gnarly in template heavy c++, but so are all the tools. intellisense can't reliably provide navigation among all of the possible instantiations in your project. Have you tried it in VS 2010+? You might be surprised. I've seen it correctly handle polymorphic Boost lambdas, and that's a rather impressive feat of TMP. Also, I've just tried the scenario that you've described (if I understand it correctly - "Find all references" on a class template), and it does list all the explicit instantiations in the project.
- ww520 13y agoAnother Microsoft's best kept secrets is using Javascript for shell script. It has been there forever since Javascript first came out. It's called JScript but it's just Javascript with Windows support like running ActiveX Objects, which let you access the file system, OS, network, etc. You can pretty much drive the Windows system with it through ActiveX Automation. Also you can do Office application integration like Excel Automation with it.
- cfn 13y agoAnd more: you can create new ActiveX Objects from within that JScript script giving you access to just about anything. This has been there forever (I started using this in 2006) and I use it to let my users insert their code into the process of my desktop application.
- MichaelApproved 13y agoFor me it's Web Essentials 2012. Create and compile LESS files among other great things http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/07d54d12-7133-4e15-becb-6f451ea3bea6 http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/07d54d12-7133-...
- drmohundro 13y agoRelated, but for the same reasons, you could also write classic ASP using JavaScript (as opposed to VBScript). Years ago, I spent months trying to convince my team to let me use JavaScript instead of VBScript in our ASP files.
- ww520 13y agoI know. When I need to do some Windows scripting, I'd do it in JScript rather than VBScript. Like when a user wants to merge two Excel files, nothing beats to whip out a simple JScript to do it. Running it is simple. They just double click on the JScript file and done. Business users love it.
- Aardwolf 13y agobest kept secret? How did it end up in an article here then?
- patja 13y agoDoes anyone have experience with the free VS Shell mentioned in the article as the foundation for putting together a free of cost installation? How does it compare to VS Express? Why would there be two different free Visual Studio offerings...just to keep things locked down and rule out support for add-ins?
- overgard 13y agoI think the idea of the visual studio shell is to have sort of a blank slate of an IDE for people to write their own plugins for. There's no language support, just the blank canvas. Anyway microsoft doesn't provide support for their core languages (C#/C++/VB) for the shell, so the main consequence is that, in the shell you basically get all the languages microsoft /doesn't/ directly support in visual studio, but nothing else. Whereas in the express editions you have an IDE you can't extend, but each edition supports one of microsoft's core languages.
- smortaz 13y agoovergard is correct. Our PTVS + integrated/isolated shell basically gives you a virtual "Python Express". However recently msft has moved away from the "Express" model to "Scenario" models. ie, VS for Phone, VS for Desktop, VS for Web, etc. and each includes all the tools and multiple languages you might need for that workload. We're hoping to include PTVS into the desktop & Web scenarios in the future. [disclaimer: project lead]
- patja 13y agoThat would be cool. I've been enjoying how much I can accomplish using VS Express for Web and Desktop. It is a little annoying having to install both of these, but beggars can't be choosers, right?
- jroseattle 13y agoFor me, Msft and JetBrains provide the best IDEs for getting work done. The majority of my work is in Java, C#, and Python. At the moment, I use PyCharm for python projects because I'm usually working on OSX (and prefer the local unix-y environment instead of the Windows-virtual-machine thing.) However, I started with PTVS years ago and really like it. MSFT adding IDE support for Python is a good thing -- as developers, we need more options, not less.
- loudmax 13y agoMSFT porting VS to Mac and Linux would give developers even more options.
- devcpp 13y ago...which would be detrimental to Microsoft. Limiting our options to theirs is precisely their goal by giving us a great IDE that only works on Windows. They're never gonna go it. They stand to win nothing from that.
- sosuke 13y agoI dunno, I might just be cost prohibitive to port, and likely wouldn't run as well.
- redblacktree 13y agoEven on a modern, high-powered laptop, Visual Studio still runs slowly for me. Some actions inexplicably cause the UI to hang for a few seconds. I really appreciate how OSX seems to prioritize UI responsiveness, which doesn't seem to be the case in Windows.
- numo16 13y agoI find that a little odd, as my mid-2008 macbook seems to run VS2012 pretty smoothly even through parallels. I have to wonder what else you might be running simultaneously.
- jaegerpicker 13y agoI love Visual Studio but after having worked with python quite a lot and being involved in the local developer community (IN NEOhio, NYC, and starting into Southern Maine) I think I've only ever meet two python developers who used windows as there development Os. I'm not holding my breath but if MS would port VS to OS X/Linux it would be really cool. I don't know that a good business case could be made for it though.
- orng 13y agoOn the other hand perhaps something could be done about Python so that we who are forced to develop Python on Windows stop being second-class citizens in the Python world? ButI agree. VS is an awesome IDE and the more operating systems it would be available on the better.
- xradionut 13y agoYou are fighting various other teams in Redmond/power users that have issues with OSS and technology that's cross platform and not from the Mothership. Python/Iron Python would have been a great default language for administrative scripting , but nope, they had to reinvent the wheel with PowerShell. (I've had MVPs yell at me for discussing data analysis with Python, even on Windows.)
- ygra 13y agoPowerShell is a very nice language in its own right, though.
- farinasa 13y agoI agree and am in the same boat. I don't mind windows, but for dev, linux is much more convenient. Also wanted to say hello from NEO.
- atilev 13y agoadd in vi for VS and it's hard to use anything else: https://github.com/jaredpar/VsVim/ https://github.com/jaredpar/VsVim/
- jiggy2011 13y agoCan this be made to interface well with vagrant?
- egeozcan 13y agoThis made me remember about the "Visual Node" project[1], which is very similar to this but for node.js. I hope it's still being actively developed. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5873351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5873351
- numo16 13y agoIf this project isn't still in development, Microsoft does treat NodeJS as a first class citizen in Web Matrix[1] and is definitely worth a look. [1]: http://www.microsoft.com/Web/webmatrix/node.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/Web/webmatrix/node.aspx
- egeozcan 13y agoThanks for the suggestion. Actually, I already knew about webmatrix but it's missing a lot of features from VS and is IIS oriented. It's been a while since I last checked it, though. I'll have a fresh look.
- Paul12345534 13y agoI use Pythonwin for quick and dirty stuff but I absolutely love PTVS for anything else :) I'd never use another Python IDE after I got used to it
- antihero 13y agoAwesome as this looks, I'm not sure it's worth giving up my entire workflow or having to actually use Windows.
- pelemele 13y agoIt's cool until you see the price tag for Visual Studio Profi/Prem/Ultimate (I assume you can't use Python tools with Express versions). In that case I will stick to my old copy of Visual J++...
- isxek 13y agoQuestion: Why did the PTVS developers eventually adopt the .sln|.*proj file thing that other MS languages (C#, VB) use? As far as I can remember, there was some resistance to going through that route before (v1.5 didn't have this, I think).
- jiggy2011 13y agoThe article mentions that Visual Studio is not required to use this, but all of the downloads I tried from that page tell me to install Visual Studio.. Can somebody point me in the right direction?
- malbs 13y agoYou download either the integrated package, or the Visual Studio Shell separately Integrated package: https://pytools.codeplex.com/downloads/get/697389 https://pytools.codeplex.com/downloads/get/697389 Isolated Shell downloads: http://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=30663 http://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=3066... http://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=30670 http://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=3067... good luck
- jiggy2011 13y agoGreat, thankyou!