4 ms·

I hate to be "that" guy, but: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos o

I hate to be "that" guy, but: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. There is nothing Hacker News related here. At BEST we can tangentially relate it to our civil liberties, but that is a stretch. Let's keep things like this on Reddit and the other sites that will cover it in its entirety, and focus on technology here.

whiddershins 13y ago
You think it is a stretch that this relates to civil liberties? That's kinda interesting.
- phaus 13y ago
  Obviusly, he meant that it was a stretch that the video belongs on HN, due to it being involved with our civil liberties.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
mwilcox 13y ago
'Hacker News' is whatever news is voted up by the users. While the original article might not be about programming or startups, people might still be interested in discussing it with like-minded people. In this case it involves technology and sousveillance, which is related to a lot of issues going on that are more 'hacker' related. It might not be that interesting to you or me, but it's at the number 1 spot on the homepage, so people do want to discuss it.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- WestCoastJustin 13y ago
  Technically you're correct in that, this site is a culmination of news that gets submitted and upvoted. However, eggbrain was quoting the Hacker News Guidelines [1], when he listed the Off-Topic line. I think that this story does fall within the off-topic category (even though it is popular, like you mentioned), because it is graphic content, which is probably a crime, and just senseless violence. [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- derefr 13y ago
  No; this attitude is exactly what allows for the community dilution. "Open membership" + "front page should be a representative sampling of 'anything the membership likes'" has its asymptote at "cat pictures." A community starts with a focus, and its core members join because they want a focused community. But they invite their friends, who aren't necessarily fully interested in the core discussion--so discussion drifts wider. And as discussion drifts, more secondary members (only somewhat interested in the core topic) and event tertiary members (not at all interested in the core topic, only in the secondary topics introduced by drift) join, until the community no longer has any core topic or core userbase whatsoever. The core members see the community as useless (because it no longer gives them anything they couldn't find elsewhere on the internet), and leave to find/start another community that actually has a focus. The only way to stop this process, is to either disallow "open membership"--e.g. you can't invite your friends if they're not also hackers--or to disallow "front page should be a representative sampling of 'anything the membership likes'"--e.g. by requiring that people vote to a criteria other than "what you personally enjoy." The HN guidelines are an attempt at the latter.
  - fossuser 13y ago
    Exactly - and it's been getting worse. I usually don't comment on this since it may serve to just exacerbate the problem, but this last year it seems like there has been a stronger decline in comment/article quality on HN than usual. I'm not sure what's going on - when digg started to feel this way in 2007 there was reddit and when reddit started to feel this way in 2008 I found HN, not sure what's next.
  - mwilcox 13y ago
    I think the content here has shifted from the original focus long ago, lots of people are interested in discussing the context in which technology and the work they do takes place. Actually, refreshing the thread now (this has taken off pretty quickly) there's very little relevant discussion, so I agree with you. I would have liked to see some discussion around the role of sousveillance but it's mostly just the typical reddit 'police are scum' discussion.
- eggbrain 13y ago
  This is the argument that many subreddits on Reddit took in the beginning - the content that is voted up deserves to be where it is. What ends up happening is that the low hanging fruit, the stuff easily consumable gets upvoted 'faster' because you don't need to think about it -- you digest it, upvote it, and you are done. If you do this with enough banal content, the users who care, the users who want the site to be about interesting and important stories, leave, and the cycle continues. It ends up turning into an "Eternal September".
maddddddddddddd 13y ago
i hate to be "that" guy, but: you're an idiot. in an unchecked police state, technology does not exist in any form worth focusing on.
savrajsingh 13y ago
I think it's on topic -- consumer tech and rapid distribution of video disrupting how groups (in this case the cops) function and deal w/citizens. Would the situation have been different if he were filming w/google glass?
danboarder 13y ago
Let's see: The guy is using a smart phone to record in a public space and gets arrested (not to mention the dog). Use of smart phones (video apps etc) in the public space and it's implications are certainly HN-relevant.
- eggbrain 13y ago
  This is ridiculous. A guy takes a picture of his cat in the park. He took a picture with his smartphone. Use of smartphones in a public space are HN-Relevant. Thus, we can now upload cute animal pictures to Hacker News.
lukifer 13y ago
As much as I want more publicity for this case, I agree. I don't want HN to be completely politics-free, as issues like SOPA and PRISM are deeply relevant to the startup community, but in this case, I think Reddit and TV news have got it covered. Reluctantly flagged.

whiddershins 13y ago

You think it is a stretch that this relates to civil liberties? That's kinda interesting.

phaus 13y ago
Obviusly, he meant that it was a stretch that the video belongs on HN, due to it being involved with our civil liberties.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

mwilcox 13y ago

'Hacker News' is whatever news is voted up by the users. While the original article might not be about programming or startups, people might still be interested in discussing it with like-minded people. In this case it involves technology and sousveillance, which is related to a lot of issues going on that are more 'hacker' related. It might not be that interesting to you or me, but it's at the number 1 spot on the homepage, so people do want to discuss it.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
WestCoastJustin 13y ago
Technically you're correct in that, this site is a culmination of news that gets submitted and upvoted. However, eggbrain was quoting the Hacker News Guidelines [1], when he listed the Off-Topic line. I think that this story does fall within the off-topic category (even though it is popular, like you mentioned), because it is graphic content, which is probably a crime, and just senseless violence. [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
derefr 13y ago
No; this attitude is exactly what allows for the community dilution. "Open membership" + "front page should be a representative sampling of 'anything the membership likes'" has its asymptote at "cat pictures." A community starts with a focus, and its core members join because they want a focused community. But they invite their friends, who aren't necessarily fully interested in the core discussion--so discussion drifts wider. And as discussion drifts, more secondary members (only somewhat interested in the core topic) and event tertiary members (not at all interested in the core topic, only in the secondary topics introduced by drift) join, until the community no longer has any core topic or core userbase whatsoever. The core members see the community as useless (because it no longer gives them anything they couldn't find elsewhere on the internet), and leave to find/start another community that actually has a focus. The only way to stop this process, is to either disallow "open membership"--e.g. you can't invite your friends if they're not also hackers--or to disallow "front page should be a representative sampling of 'anything the membership likes'"--e.g. by requiring that people vote to a criteria other than "what you personally enjoy." The HN guidelines are an attempt at the latter.
- fossuser 13y ago
  Exactly - and it's been getting worse. I usually don't comment on this since it may serve to just exacerbate the problem, but this last year it seems like there has been a stronger decline in comment/article quality on HN than usual. I'm not sure what's going on - when digg started to feel this way in 2007 there was reddit and when reddit started to feel this way in 2008 I found HN, not sure what's next.
- mwilcox 13y ago
  I think the content here has shifted from the original focus long ago, lots of people are interested in discussing the context in which technology and the work they do takes place. Actually, refreshing the thread now (this has taken off pretty quickly) there's very little relevant discussion, so I agree with you. I would have liked to see some discussion around the role of sousveillance but it's mostly just the typical reddit 'police are scum' discussion.
eggbrain 13y ago
This is the argument that many subreddits on Reddit took in the beginning - the content that is voted up deserves to be where it is. What ends up happening is that the low hanging fruit, the stuff easily consumable gets upvoted 'faster' because you don't need to think about it -- you digest it, upvote it, and you are done. If you do this with enough banal content, the users who care, the users who want the site to be about interesting and important stories, leave, and the cycle continues. It ends up turning into an "Eternal September".

maddddddddddddd 13y ago

i hate to be "that" guy, but: you're an idiot. in an unchecked police state, technology does not exist in any form worth focusing on.

savrajsingh 13y ago

I think it's on topic -- consumer tech and rapid distribution of video disrupting how groups (in this case the cops) function and deal w/citizens. Would the situation have been different if he were filming w/google glass?

danboarder 13y ago

Let's see: The guy is using a smart phone to record in a public space and gets arrested (not to mention the dog). Use of smart phones (video apps etc) in the public space and it's implications are certainly HN-relevant.

eggbrain 13y ago
This is ridiculous. A guy takes a picture of his cat in the park. He took a picture with his smartphone. Use of smartphones in a public space are HN-Relevant. Thus, we can now upload cute animal pictures to Hacker News.

lukifer 13y ago

As much as I want more publicity for this case, I agree. I don't want HN to be completely politics-free, as issues like SOPA and PRISM are deeply relevant to the startup community, but in this case, I think Reddit and TV news have got it covered. Reluctantly flagged.