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Stretching the truth is wholly unnecessary to making such a point. Need I argue that the ends do not justify the means?

lhnz 13y ago
Your argument stems from an inability to check what "exile" is... "Exile means to be away from one's home (i.e. city, state or country), while either being explicitly refused permission to return and/or being threatened with imprisonment or death upon return." [0] Hopefully that clears things up... [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile
- tome 13y ago
  My understanding is that the imprisonment/death would be a penalty for breaking the terms of the exile, which is something quite different.
  - lhnz 13y ago
    Fair enough, but at this point it's pretty close to exile without being a perfect example... Still: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5974040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5974040 I think effectively it is a bad situation which has been created for him by the United States government. They are definitely manipulating his citizenship for their purposes whether you like the wording or not.
    - tome 13y ago
      They revoked his passport because he's wanted for questioning about a crime. How is that different from any other criminal who flees abroad?
      - lhnz 13y ago
        They revoked his passport because they needed time to negotiate with other countries to refuse him the right to asylum. And this isn't about just being questioned. If he is extradited back to the US, expect a lot worse to happen to him... What he has done is no doubt illegal, but it also strikes me as a positive thing. I disagree with people that say he is a fugitive from justice - I think it's very clear that he is a fugitive from injustice. He has shown us injustices from the US government - and now they wish to have him stand trial in order that they can lock him up for life, sentence him to death or torture him. Is there a difference between Snowden and other criminals? Yes, Snowden has done the right thing.
- mbreese 13y ago
  Just to be clear - he hasn't been exiled by the US. He is in self-imposed exile to avoid prosecution. They haven't revoked his citizenship... just his passport. That doesn't remove citizenship, just the ability to travel abroad.
  - sneak 13y ago
    If he returns to the US he will be tortured, as Manning was, prior to trial for much the same charge. It's not self-imposed exile if returning to the US is a non-option due to their DEMONSTRATED TENDENCY to deny prisoners their basic human rights.
EthanHeilman 13y ago
But clearly he did not stretch the truth, you just failed to understand the full meaning of exile. An accident, but easily remedied. Why are you so insistent that he is stretching the truth?

lhnz 13y ago

Your argument stems from an inability to check what "exile" is... "Exile means to be away from one's home (i.e. city, state or country), while either being explicitly refused permission to return and/or being threatened with imprisonment or death upon return." [0] Hopefully that clears things up... [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile

tome 13y ago
My understanding is that the imprisonment/death would be a penalty for breaking the terms of the exile, which is something quite different.
- lhnz 13y ago
  Fair enough, but at this point it's pretty close to exile without being a perfect example... Still: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5974040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5974040 I think effectively it is a bad situation which has been created for him by the United States government. They are definitely manipulating his citizenship for their purposes whether you like the wording or not.
  - tome 13y ago
    They revoked his passport because he's wanted for questioning about a crime. How is that different from any other criminal who flees abroad?
    - lhnz 13y ago
      They revoked his passport because they needed time to negotiate with other countries to refuse him the right to asylum. And this isn't about just being questioned. If he is extradited back to the US, expect a lot worse to happen to him... What he has done is no doubt illegal, but it also strikes me as a positive thing. I disagree with people that say he is a fugitive from justice - I think it's very clear that he is a fugitive from injustice. He has shown us injustices from the US government - and now they wish to have him stand trial in order that they can lock him up for life, sentence him to death or torture him. Is there a difference between Snowden and other criminals? Yes, Snowden has done the right thing.
mbreese 13y ago
Just to be clear - he hasn't been exiled by the US. He is in self-imposed exile to avoid prosecution. They haven't revoked his citizenship... just his passport. That doesn't remove citizenship, just the ability to travel abroad.
- sneak 13y ago
  If he returns to the US he will be tortured, as Manning was, prior to trial for much the same charge. It's not self-imposed exile if returning to the US is a non-option due to their DEMONSTRATED TENDENCY to deny prisoners their basic human rights.

EthanHeilman 13y ago

But clearly he did not stretch the truth, you just failed to understand the full meaning of exile. An accident, but easily remedied. Why are you so insistent that he is stretching the truth?