4 ms·

You are way too easy on FB for destroying your girlfriend's relationship with her parents. Clearly, FB deserves at least some of the blame. Without your consen

by jbail 13y ago

You are way too easy on FB for destroying your girlfriend's relationship with her parents. Clearly, FB deserves at least some of the blame. Without your consent, they made private photos public. You didn't do that. You used their privacy settings which they created to prevent this type of situation. To have FB disregard their own privacy settings is 100% on them. But, instead of blaming FB, you blame yourself. In light of the total collapse of privacy we've experienced recently, it's really sad that that seems perfectly rational.

ScottBurson 13y ago
I think he's philosophical about it because, let's face it, her parents would have found out sooner or later -- certainly, by the time they got married! But I agree with you about Facebook. I closed my account three years ago. (Heh -- three weeks later they tried to recruit me. I turned them down.)
omegant 13y ago
On the contrary I think that his view is far more realist than yours. Her girlfrind gave her private picture to a third source. If you want to keep information secret you never give it away, not on internet not on the real life. Is not like facebook went to her homea amd took the pictures from her camera. I don't think that facebook did a good job here of course. But it's more that it acted like a catalizer in a situation that was heading on tha direction any way.
- sneak 13y ago
  > If you want to keep information secret you never give it away, not on internet not on the real life. How do you apply that seemingly unassailable stance to something like iPhone/iCloud, where photos you take with the only camera you have on you during once-in-a-lifetime-moments are immediately and automatically uploaded to a third party for safekeeping? The solution to all of this data retention/spying stuff is not "start being meticulously paranoid with all of your data", not the least of which is because that won't scale to the majority of the population (and it must, if we are to retain a free society). Furthermore, communications metadata (such as email envelopes with your residential IP and timestamp, cell tower logs that reveal your location, or call logs that reveal your social graph) can't be kept secret unless you _stop communicating with people_. It's a non-starter. The solution is to alter the legal environment such that these large troves of centralized data are much harder to exploit for evil, both by service providers and military intelligence organizations.
  - baddox 13y ago
    > How do you apply that seemingly unassailable stance to something like iPhone/iCloud, where photos you take with the only camera you have on you during once-in-a-lifetime-moments are immediately and automatically uploaded to a third party for safekeeping? I apply it equally. The same goes for VPS, EC2, etc., and (especially given recent revelations) it's clear it should apply even to unencrypted communications over the Internet even between nodes you control.
    - EGreg 13y ago
      Do you think if you pay an ISP specifically to not divulge your data to others, and they do, then you should be able to get restitution legally, since they broke the contract? At what point can you actually have a basis for legal recourse? Once again the problem is that we don't have decentralized technology that would store our data encrypted and serve it only to those who we have granted access. But we will. Actually the new MegaUpload is encrypted.
      - baddox 13y ago
        I absolutely think that you can and should make contracts that provide for restitution, if possible. It's up to each individual what sort of restitution they would require for leaking certain pieces of their data.
  - frobozz 13y ago
    >How do you apply that seemingly unassailable stance to something like iPhone/iCloud A: if you want to keep it secret. How often do people find themselves in once in a lifetime moments that they want to keep secret, and want to take photos of, but only have an iphone with them? B: iphones are not the only phones with built in cameras. If you care about privacy to that extent, you wouldn't own one. That said, I agree with you. One example is when Service providers unilaterally change their tos by asserting that continued usage implies consent. This puts too much power in the hands of companies like Facebook, where many users are too embedded not to continue.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  I voted both you and the predecessor up because you're both right. FB deserves the blame but OP is a more of a realist in his philosophical assignation of "blame." FB is happy to "destroy privacy" like a child unable to consider the real implications.
- mtgx 13y ago
  Enough with this "3rd party" bullshit. Just because they are a 3rd party, doesn't mean they can make everything about you public, or hand it over to whoever. They agreed to keep your stuff private under their settings, and then they just unilaterally decide that it should be public? Screw that. This could be a winnable class action lawsuit.
ams6110 13y ago
While true, it's not like this wouldn't have happened eventually anyway. Were they going to keep this relationship secret from her parents forever? How well would that ultimately work out?
- mtgx 13y ago
  But the question is, was it Facebook's right to decide that? Or theirs?
- tripzilch 13y ago
  This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Or actually, it does, but in the sense that your argument is pretty much analogous to the "if you have nothing to hide" argument.
smutticus 13y ago
FB has (disregarded|overridden|conveniently forgotten| changed) their own privacy settings so much at this point why bother. It's a complete sham, a lie, bullshit, etc. There's really nothing you can do about this state of affairs except quit FB. They know you won't so they'll just keep fucking you. FB doesn't respect you like they don't respect their own ToS. Their job is to fuck you, over and over. That's their business plan and purpose of existence. Your job is to get fucked. Recognize your place in this relationship. If you're uncomfortable about this relationship then leave. Otherwise STFU. Stop telling me that FB did something terrible with your precious personal information again. It's like someone complaining that their car got stolen after they left the keys sitting on top of it in a bad neighborhood. WTF did you expect?
- jbail 13y ago
  I did leave. Four years ago.

by jbail 13y ago

ScottBurson 13y ago

I think he's philosophical about it because, let's face it, her parents would have found out sooner or later -- certainly, by the time they got married! But I agree with you about Facebook. I closed my account three years ago. (Heh -- three weeks later they tried to recruit me. I turned them down.)

omegant 13y ago

On the contrary I think that his view is far more realist than yours. Her girlfrind gave her private picture to a third source. If you want to keep information secret you never give it away, not on internet not on the real life. Is not like facebook went to her homea amd took the pictures from her camera. I don't think that facebook did a good job here of course. But it's more that it acted like a catalizer in a situation that was heading on tha direction any way.

sneak 13y ago
> If you want to keep information secret you never give it away, not on internet not on the real life. How do you apply that seemingly unassailable stance to something like iPhone/iCloud, where photos you take with the only camera you have on you during once-in-a-lifetime-moments are immediately and automatically uploaded to a third party for safekeeping? The solution to all of this data retention/spying stuff is not "start being meticulously paranoid with all of your data", not the least of which is because that won't scale to the majority of the population (and it must, if we are to retain a free society). Furthermore, communications metadata (such as email envelopes with your residential IP and timestamp, cell tower logs that reveal your location, or call logs that reveal your social graph) can't be kept secret unless you _stop communicating with people_. It's a non-starter. The solution is to alter the legal environment such that these large troves of centralized data are much harder to exploit for evil, both by service providers and military intelligence organizations.
- baddox 13y ago
  > How do you apply that seemingly unassailable stance to something like iPhone/iCloud, where photos you take with the only camera you have on you during once-in-a-lifetime-moments are immediately and automatically uploaded to a third party for safekeeping? I apply it equally. The same goes for VPS, EC2, etc., and (especially given recent revelations) it's clear it should apply even to unencrypted communications over the Internet even between nodes you control.
  - EGreg 13y ago
    Do you think if you pay an ISP specifically to not divulge your data to others, and they do, then you should be able to get restitution legally, since they broke the contract? At what point can you actually have a basis for legal recourse? Once again the problem is that we don't have decentralized technology that would store our data encrypted and serve it only to those who we have granted access. But we will. Actually the new MegaUpload is encrypted.
    - baddox 13y ago
      I absolutely think that you can and should make contracts that provide for restitution, if possible. It's up to each individual what sort of restitution they would require for leaking certain pieces of their data.
- frobozz 13y ago
  >How do you apply that seemingly unassailable stance to something like iPhone/iCloud A: if you want to keep it secret. How often do people find themselves in once in a lifetime moments that they want to keep secret, and want to take photos of, but only have an iphone with them? B: iphones are not the only phones with built in cameras. If you care about privacy to that extent, you wouldn't own one. That said, I agree with you. One example is when Service providers unilaterally change their tos by asserting that continued usage implies consent. This puts too much power in the hands of companies like Facebook, where many users are too embedded not to continue.
wavefunction 13y ago
I voted both you and the predecessor up because you're both right. FB deserves the blame but OP is a more of a realist in his philosophical assignation of "blame." FB is happy to "destroy privacy" like a child unable to consider the real implications.
mtgx 13y ago
Enough with this "3rd party" bullshit. Just because they are a 3rd party, doesn't mean they can make everything about you public, or hand it over to whoever. They agreed to keep your stuff private under their settings, and then they just unilaterally decide that it should be public? Screw that. This could be a winnable class action lawsuit.

ams6110 13y ago

While true, it's not like this wouldn't have happened eventually anyway. Were they going to keep this relationship secret from her parents forever? How well would that ultimately work out?

mtgx 13y ago
But the question is, was it Facebook's right to decide that? Or theirs?
tripzilch 13y ago
This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Or actually, it does, but in the sense that your argument is pretty much analogous to the "if you have nothing to hide" argument.

smutticus 13y ago

FB has (disregarded|overridden|conveniently forgotten| changed) their own privacy settings so much at this point why bother. It's a complete sham, a lie, bullshit, etc. There's really nothing you can do about this state of affairs except quit FB. They know you won't so they'll just keep fucking you. FB doesn't respect you like they don't respect their own ToS. Their job is to fuck you, over and over. That's their business plan and purpose of existence. Your job is to get fucked. Recognize your place in this relationship. If you're uncomfortable about this relationship then leave. Otherwise STFU. Stop telling me that FB did something terrible with your precious personal information again. It's like someone complaining that their car got stolen after they left the keys sitting on top of it in a bad neighborhood. WTF did you expect?

jbail 13y ago
I did leave. Four years ago.