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From what I understand Snowden's father is very eager to get him back to the US. As long as he has "iron clad assurances of his constitutional rights", which is

by hooande 13y ago

From what I understand Snowden's father is very eager to get him back to the US. As long as he has "iron clad assurances of his constitutional rights", which is kind of silly. This is an incredibly high profile case and the Justice Dept doesn't want to win this one by cheating. They take pride in their work as investigators and prosecutors, they will want this case to be nice and fair. Despite what the movies have lead use to believe we aren't going to send Jason Bourne to assassinate him in the snow. Snowden is a very interesting case. On one hand, he seems to have an idealistic view of his actions. He sincerely believes that he did the right thing. On the other hand, he now has what most 29 yr olds would give anything for: international fame. The world is tracking his every move, people are starting to venerate him...I kind of trust that his motives were pure but this is one hell of a side benefit. Does anyone remember when Kanye West looked into the camera and said "George Bush does not care about black people"? I think that he and Snowden are linked because they both felt very strongly about an issue, but couldn't or didn't pursue recourse through the proper channels. Anyone who saw Kanye's face before he made his statement could see the brew of fear and nervousness inside of him, because deep down he knew that his next action probably wasn't the right thing to do. I would guess that Snowden went through similar emotions. He absolutely had to do what he thought was right, but inside he knew that there was probably a better way. Snowden isn't an agent of espionage or a traitor. He is a criminal, he clearly broke the law. The perceived Constitutionality of the NSA programs is irrelevant. The Constitution itself says clearly who is in charge of interpreting the Constitution. He doesn't get a pass based on his beliefs or because of our beliefs. I hope he comes home and faces a trial. If he gets an OJ level superstar legal team he has a good chance of being found not guilty. If he loses he's facing around 10 yrs in a lower security prison. The show trial and national debate he'll spark will probably be more than worth it.

wissler 13y ago
I think you should ask some 29 year olds if they'd like that kind of fame. I think the vast majority would say: No Way.
andrewljohnson 13y ago
"The perceived Constitutionality of the NSA programs is irrelevant." This is incorrect. If the NSA programs are found to be unconstitutional by the courts, Snowden will have to be regarded as a whistleblower. If he is a whistleblower, then he is not a criminal. The very problem here is that a good number of us Americans, and a great many more non-Americans, regard secret surveillance as both an affront to the 4th amendment of the US Constitution, and the basic human right to freedom. Secrecy is simply anathema to democracy.
- rsync 13y ago
  If he gets a jury trial then all of it is irrelevant. He can be acquitted for any reason whatsoever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
  - dmix 13y ago
    Espionage is tried with juries? Source?
    - tptacek 13y ago
      What source would you need for that? The 6th Amendment guarantees trial by jury.
      - dmix 13y ago
        Fair enough. I had assumed military trials may be treated differently as Manning's trial didn't have a jury. But it turns out he declined a jury with this reasoning: > "The answer may be that a tough judge is still a better option than a military jury picked from a pool of serving soldiers that widely considers Manning to be a traitor. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9901659/WikiLeaks-why-has-Bradley-Manning-turned-down-a-jury-trial.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9901659/...
        13y ago
happy_dino 13y ago
People like you make me really feel ashamed of the human race.
dmix 13y ago
I'd much rather have subversion embarrassing the tyrants from abroad than have a legal/political martyr at home.
VladRussian2 13y ago
> This is an incredibly high profile case and the Justice Dept doesn't want to win this one by cheating. They take pride in their work as investigators and prosecutors, they will want this case to be nice and fair. nice joke. Manning would laugh at it if he had any mental or body energy left.
- defen 13y ago
  Bradley Manning is being tried by the U.S. military, not the Justice Department.
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    so, does it mean that you think that this statement about Justice Deartment is not applicable to US military ? "the Justice Dept doesn't want to win this one by cheating. They take pride in their work as investigators and prosecutors, they will want this case to be nice and fair."
    - defen 13y ago
      I'm saying you can't use the Bradley Manning case as an example of the bad treatment Snowden would receive from the DoJ, because the DoJ is not responsible for whatever is going on with Bradley Manning. Snowden is a civilian so he would not be tried by the military.
  - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
    Stephen P. Heyman Carmen Milagros Ortiz
    - rtpg 13y ago
      this is a bit more high-profile I think.
general_failure 13y ago
> I hope he comes home and faces a trial. If he gets an OJ level superstar legal team he has a good chance of being found not guilty. If he loses he's facing around 10 yrs in a lower security prison. The show trial and national debate he'll spark will probably be more than worth it. Wow, what a terrible and imcompassionate comment. Here's young man who braved it all to give us some factual information about spying. When '1984' scenarios were discussed before this leak, most people shrugged it off as some conspiracy theory or one being unnecessarily cynical. This leak is a big reality check for those people. Instead of empathizing with Snowden, here you are saying that spending prison time will be 'worth it'. Worth it for whom? The media who can write tons of stories? The US citizens who now got some factual information but put the source in jail anyway? Snowden _already_ gave up his cushy life for informing the US citizens about this leak. Expecting him to do more speaks more about one's character than anything else. I am already saddenned that there has been outrage only on the internet but not on the streets in the US. It can only mean one thing - the US people cannot be bothered to leave the comfort of their homes where there is, I am sure, something much more 'entertaining' and 'fun'.

by hooande 13y ago

wissler 13y ago

I think you should ask some 29 year olds if they'd like that kind of fame. I think the vast majority would say: No Way.

andrewljohnson 13y ago

"The perceived Constitutionality of the NSA programs is irrelevant." This is incorrect. If the NSA programs are found to be unconstitutional by the courts, Snowden will have to be regarded as a whistleblower. If he is a whistleblower, then he is not a criminal. The very problem here is that a good number of us Americans, and a great many more non-Americans, regard secret surveillance as both an affront to the 4th amendment of the US Constitution, and the basic human right to freedom. Secrecy is simply anathema to democracy.

rsync 13y ago
If he gets a jury trial then all of it is irrelevant. He can be acquitted for any reason whatsoever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
- dmix 13y ago
  Espionage is tried with juries? Source?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    What source would you need for that? The 6th Amendment guarantees trial by jury.
    - dmix 13y ago
      Fair enough. I had assumed military trials may be treated differently as Manning's trial didn't have a jury. But it turns out he declined a jury with this reasoning: > "The answer may be that a tough judge is still a better option than a military jury picked from a pool of serving soldiers that widely considers Manning to be a traitor. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9901659/WikiLeaks-why-has-Bradley-Manning-turned-down-a-jury-trial.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9901659/...
      - 13y ago

happy_dino 13y ago

People like you make me really feel ashamed of the human race.

dmix 13y ago

I'd much rather have subversion embarrassing the tyrants from abroad than have a legal/political martyr at home.

VladRussian2 13y ago

> This is an incredibly high profile case and the Justice Dept doesn't want to win this one by cheating. They take pride in their work as investigators and prosecutors, they will want this case to be nice and fair. nice joke. Manning would laugh at it if he had any mental or body energy left.

defen 13y ago
Bradley Manning is being tried by the U.S. military, not the Justice Department.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  so, does it mean that you think that this statement about Justice Deartment is not applicable to US military ? "the Justice Dept doesn't want to win this one by cheating. They take pride in their work as investigators and prosecutors, they will want this case to be nice and fair."
  - defen 13y ago
    I'm saying you can't use the Bradley Manning case as an example of the bad treatment Snowden would receive from the DoJ, because the DoJ is not responsible for whatever is going on with Bradley Manning. Snowden is a civilian so he would not be tried by the military.
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  Stephen P. Heyman Carmen Milagros Ortiz
  - rtpg 13y ago
    this is a bit more high-profile I think.

general_failure 13y ago

> I hope he comes home and faces a trial. If he gets an OJ level superstar legal team he has a good chance of being found not guilty. If he loses he's facing around 10 yrs in a lower security prison. The show trial and national debate he'll spark will probably be more than worth it. Wow, what a terrible and imcompassionate comment. Here's young man who braved it all to give us some factual information about spying. When '1984' scenarios were discussed before this leak, most people shrugged it off as some conspiracy theory or one being unnecessarily cynical. This leak is a big reality check for those people. Instead of empathizing with Snowden, here you are saying that spending prison time will be 'worth it'. Worth it for whom? The media who can write tons of stories? The US citizens who now got some factual information but put the source in jail anyway? Snowden _already_ gave up his cushy life for informing the US citizens about this leak. Expecting him to do more speaks more about one's character than anything else. I am already saddenned that there has been outrage only on the internet but not on the streets in the US. It can only mean one thing - the US people cannot be bothered to leave the comfort of their homes where there is, I am sure, something much more 'entertaining' and 'fun'.