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What a time we live in when asking for your constitutional rights is too much to ask... "...would return voluntarily to the US if there were "ironclad assuranc

What a time we live in when asking for your constitutional rights is too much to ask... "...would return voluntarily to the US if there were "ironclad assurances that his constitutional rights would be honored"."

anigbrowl 13y ago
Nobody said it would be too much to ask, but you don't have a constitutional right to released on bail (judges have always decided that on a case-by-case basis) or to decide which court your case will be heard in (I presume Snowden is hoping to have a trial take place within the 9th circuit based on his residence in Hawaii, given the relatively libertarian bent of the 9th Circuit appeals court). All defendants have the right to make requests for such things...through filing motions in court. Snowden is asking (strictly speaking, his father is asking on his behalf) for extrajudicial guarantees that are not mentioned in the constitution or available to normal defendants.
- olefoo 13y ago
  Without having the letter from Snowden's father in front of us, we can't say exactly what is being asked for; but the fact that the United States of America has been labeled a 'country of concern' by multiple international bodies monitoring human rights violations[1] for it's treatment of Bradley Manning means that Snowden's family may rationally be concerned that Snowden would be subjected to prejudicial treatment whilst in pre-trial detention. Most especially the holding of individuals in solitary confinement throughout the US penal system is currently the subject of international concern [2] as a method of torture and cruel and unusual punishment. Especially in regards to the treatment of whistleblowers; which brings in the question of the right of the citizenry at large to be informed of the deeds of the government. [3] The fact that the United States has been so willing to violate it's own stated principles of justice, not merely in the case of accused terrorists in the concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay; but also domestically. Means that Snowden's father would be justified in asking for public guarantees of treatment that should be accorded to an accused defendant as a matter of course. If I were negotiating Snowden's surrender I can think of a number of guarantees that I would demand of the US Justice department. They would start with a complete ban on solitary confinement, a guaranteed right of access by his legal team, counselors, internation human rights observers and selected media contacts. I would also ensure that he was guaranteed the right to choose his wardrobe for all public appearances and might even ask for public video feeds of the public areas where he is held in confinement so that the world could see he was being treated with utmost fairness. This country has never quite lived up to it's idealized image of itself; but the fact that any rational person would today fear torture at the hands of the US government if they are held in detention should give us all pause. 1. https://www.amnesty.org/en/news/usa-must-not-hunt-down-whistleblower-edward-snowden-2013-06-24 https://www.amnesty.org/en/news/usa-must-not-hunt-down-whist... 2. http://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights-human-rights-national-security/rights-groups-government-allow-un-torture http://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights-human-rights-natio... 3. http://www.article19.org/resources.php/resource/37133/en/usa-must-respect-international-standards-on-protection-of-whistleblowers http://www.article19.org/resources.php/resource/37133/en/usa...
- cpleppert 13y ago
  >>All defendants have the right to make requests for such things...through filing motions in court.Snowden is asking (strictly speaking, his father is asking on his behalf) for extrajudicial guarantees that are not mentioned in the constitution or available to normal defendants. Extrajudicial guarantees are absolutely meaningless in a judicial court. Simply because Snowden and the justice department make a deal to obtain his extradition doesn't mean that the court has to accept the deal. The court will rule based on the particulars of the case not on what is convenient for the government.
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  I don't think anyone said that you have a constitutional right to be released on bail or to decide which court your case will be heard in. You (supposedly) have a right to a fair trial, as well as the right to be free of torture, and the argument is that sitting in solitary confinement for months or years, only to be convicted in a heavily biased Virginia court, would violate these things.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    No, that's not the argument at all. Snowden's father said that he anticipated his son would return if he had a guarantee of freedom before trial, no gag order, and a choice of venue. This was widely reported and I am assessing his statements at face value. Nobody but you has mentioned solitary confinement or Virginia courts; you're entitled to an opinion that that's the risk he's facing, but that has nothing to do with the statement made by Snowden's father. You don't speak for him.
    - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
      I know what his father said. You're reading it wrong is all. You're also incorrect that nobody but me mentioned solitary confinement or Virginia courts. Snowden himself brought that issue up and it's been widely discussed.

anigbrowl 13y ago

Nobody said it would be too much to ask, but you don't have a constitutional right to released on bail (judges have always decided that on a case-by-case basis) or to decide which court your case will be heard in (I presume Snowden is hoping to have a trial take place within the 9th circuit based on his residence in Hawaii, given the relatively libertarian bent of the 9th Circuit appeals court). All defendants have the right to make requests for such things...through filing motions in court. Snowden is asking (strictly speaking, his father is asking on his behalf) for extrajudicial guarantees that are not mentioned in the constitution or available to normal defendants.

olefoo 13y ago
Without having the letter from Snowden's father in front of us, we can't say exactly what is being asked for; but the fact that the United States of America has been labeled a 'country of concern' by multiple international bodies monitoring human rights violations[1] for it's treatment of Bradley Manning means that Snowden's family may rationally be concerned that Snowden would be subjected to prejudicial treatment whilst in pre-trial detention. Most especially the holding of individuals in solitary confinement throughout the US penal system is currently the subject of international concern [2] as a method of torture and cruel and unusual punishment. Especially in regards to the treatment of whistleblowers; which brings in the question of the right of the citizenry at large to be informed of the deeds of the government. [3] The fact that the United States has been so willing to violate it's own stated principles of justice, not merely in the case of accused terrorists in the concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay; but also domestically. Means that Snowden's father would be justified in asking for public guarantees of treatment that should be accorded to an accused defendant as a matter of course. If I were negotiating Snowden's surrender I can think of a number of guarantees that I would demand of the US Justice department. They would start with a complete ban on solitary confinement, a guaranteed right of access by his legal team, counselors, internation human rights observers and selected media contacts. I would also ensure that he was guaranteed the right to choose his wardrobe for all public appearances and might even ask for public video feeds of the public areas where he is held in confinement so that the world could see he was being treated with utmost fairness. This country has never quite lived up to it's idealized image of itself; but the fact that any rational person would today fear torture at the hands of the US government if they are held in detention should give us all pause. 1. https://www.amnesty.org/en/news/usa-must-not-hunt-down-whistleblower-edward-snowden-2013-06-24 https://www.amnesty.org/en/news/usa-must-not-hunt-down-whist... 2. http://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights-human-rights-national-security/rights-groups-government-allow-un-torture http://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights-human-rights-natio... 3. http://www.article19.org/resources.php/resource/37133/en/usa-must-respect-international-standards-on-protection-of-whistleblowers http://www.article19.org/resources.php/resource/37133/en/usa...
cpleppert 13y ago
>>All defendants have the right to make requests for such things...through filing motions in court.Snowden is asking (strictly speaking, his father is asking on his behalf) for extrajudicial guarantees that are not mentioned in the constitution or available to normal defendants. Extrajudicial guarantees are absolutely meaningless in a judicial court. Simply because Snowden and the justice department make a deal to obtain his extradition doesn't mean that the court has to accept the deal. The court will rule based on the particulars of the case not on what is convenient for the government.
lawnchair_larry 13y ago
I don't think anyone said that you have a constitutional right to be released on bail or to decide which court your case will be heard in. You (supposedly) have a right to a fair trial, as well as the right to be free of torture, and the argument is that sitting in solitary confinement for months or years, only to be convicted in a heavily biased Virginia court, would violate these things.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  No, that's not the argument at all. Snowden's father said that he anticipated his son would return if he had a guarantee of freedom before trial, no gag order, and a choice of venue. This was widely reported and I am assessing his statements at face value. Nobody but you has mentioned solitary confinement or Virginia courts; you're entitled to an opinion that that's the risk he's facing, but that has nothing to do with the statement made by Snowden's father. You don't speak for him.
  - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
    I know what his father said. You're reading it wrong is all. You're also incorrect that nobody but me mentioned solitary confinement or Virginia courts. Snowden himself brought that issue up and it's been widely discussed.