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What is the evidence that Snowden's activities have harmed US?

darthfodder 13y ago
There is none. Only politicians claiming so.
freehunter 13y ago
You haven't read about the outrage from countries, citizens, human rights activists, etc? Lawsuits from the ACLU? Ecuador dropping their favored trade status (trade favors go both ways). At the very least, this has harmed the public image of the US government just by the very nature of its public reveal.
- kalms 13y ago
  It would seem like EU dropping their planned trade agreement would be a much bigger blow. Not to mention the animosity it has created towards the US in general. European leaders are demanding answers, and the US is staying silent. It's not good, that's for sure.
  - blueprint 13y ago
    Most or all EU countries have programs that spy on their own citizens and on US traffic. And, they oft do so in cooperation with the US government. Additionally, the politicians who are calling for trade agreement cancellation are doing so on the stage of the world – with specific political agenda. They do that because if they don't, they invite exploitation and will lose their own power. The revelation of all the facts about the reality of the power structures in the world must occur, and it must occur so that the people can finally live without latent animosity towards each other. The fact that the surveillance was not leaked with documents via a publicly accepted media outlet before Snowden does not somehow mean that the problems did not exist before and have continuous affect on people, society, and further, the world. On the contrary, as long as people live in ignorance or denial of important problems, it means those problems are hidden by the society, and the society will become dark and the society in turn causes people to do wrong things. In a dark society, justice becomes lost. When justice is lost, the society will fall. That's why this effort to reveal the reality has quite the opposite effect on our society of harming us. It is absolutely necessary if we are to survive the next decade and if we are to truly live with worldwide cooperation.
    - kalms 13y ago
      +1, but.. I'm not oblivious to the intelligence services here in Europe, although their focus hasn't exactly been the US. I'm aware of the political shenanigans, and of course they're trying to exploit the situation to their own benefit. As a European I'm furious, but right now I don't care about internal politics. I care about external threats, since that's what the USG just demoted their own country to. I love the States, but it's a tough love right now.
- betterunix 13y ago
  There is something that angers me a bit about this sentiment, and I am speaking as a US citizen here. Snowden has harmed the US government by embarrassing it, causing civil rights groups to file lawsuits, and by causing a trade agreement to possibly fail over his request for asylum? It sounds like you are saying we should just keep quiet about government abuses, which is basically the opposite of what America is supposed to stand for.
  - freehunter 13y ago
    I'm not arguing right or wrong. Just that yes, in fact, the US has been hurt by this. I want to know why you're jumping to the conclusion that I think this is okay. I never once implied anything of the sort. If I tattle on the school bully and he gets detention, he has been hurt by me (even though once he catches me I'll be hurt worse).
    - blueprint 13y ago
      A bully's actions are detrimental to his own self as well as others and to awaken a bully has no implicit cause to harm the bully. On the contrary, it is motivated by love. Under the guidance of those who are in power currently, the US will be run into the ground. Do you know why that will be the result? It's because of falsehood that our society is being ruined. It will never happen that revealing the truth will ruin a society. So our efforts to reveal the facts of what is happening in reality are not to the detriment of the country - it is to save it from destruction. That's why I demand evidence of your words. How has the US been hurt by this? You said it is fact, so please show us something we can confirm.
      - freehunter 13y ago
        Seriously how does a simple comment like "yeah, getting called out hurts" lead to this much fucking witch-hunting? I feel like you guys are about to dox me and send SWAT to my house. Why aren't you ganging up on kalms, who responded in agreement? I already answered your question that you're somehow still demanding an answer to. There's a TV channel devoted to people who want to ignore the fact that someone responded to their question and make conveniently and intentionally false accusations in an attempt to discredit them. I broke my hand once, and before I could get to the hospital the bone started to heal. It needed to be rebroken in order to heal properly. Sure the doctor broke my hand out of love for his patient. IT STILL FUCKING HURT.
- blueprint 13y ago
  As far as I remember this country was created for the living people, not for the wealth and power of the aristocracy that has assumed control of it. No matter how much the media conflate the two, the USA is not equivalent to its government. Nor is it the same as its foreign policy or international political image. US society is made up of real people and there is no evidence that Snowden's information has harmed the society. But let's take it further. If you suppose that the USA's image was harmed, you should realize the fact that Snowden did not harm its image. It was harmed by the activities which Snowden's leaks revealed.
- Uhhrrr 13y ago
  It is possible to harm the USG and help the US at the same time.
- markdown 13y ago
  Yeah, this is why North Korea gets upset every time one of their people defects and reveals the human rights abuses of their government. Those people are scum, embarrassing their government like that!!

There is none. Only politicians claiming so.

You haven't read about the outrage from countries, citizens, human rights activists, etc? Lawsuits from the ACLU? Ecuador dropping their favored trade status (trade favors go both ways). At the very least, this has harmed the public image of the US government just by the very nature of its public reveal.

kalms 13y ago
It would seem like EU dropping their planned trade agreement would be a much bigger blow. Not to mention the animosity it has created towards the US in general. European leaders are demanding answers, and the US is staying silent. It's not good, that's for sure.
- blueprint 13y ago
  Most or all EU countries have programs that spy on their own citizens and on US traffic. And, they oft do so in cooperation with the US government. Additionally, the politicians who are calling for trade agreement cancellation are doing so on the stage of the world – with specific political agenda. They do that because if they don't, they invite exploitation and will lose their own power. The revelation of all the facts about the reality of the power structures in the world must occur, and it must occur so that the people can finally live without latent animosity towards each other. The fact that the surveillance was not leaked with documents via a publicly accepted media outlet before Snowden does not somehow mean that the problems did not exist before and have continuous affect on people, society, and further, the world. On the contrary, as long as people live in ignorance or denial of important problems, it means those problems are hidden by the society, and the society will become dark and the society in turn causes people to do wrong things. In a dark society, justice becomes lost. When justice is lost, the society will fall. That's why this effort to reveal the reality has quite the opposite effect on our society of harming us. It is absolutely necessary if we are to survive the next decade and if we are to truly live with worldwide cooperation.
  - kalms 13y ago
    +1, but.. I'm not oblivious to the intelligence services here in Europe, although their focus hasn't exactly been the US. I'm aware of the political shenanigans, and of course they're trying to exploit the situation to their own benefit. As a European I'm furious, but right now I don't care about internal politics. I care about external threats, since that's what the USG just demoted their own country to. I love the States, but it's a tough love right now.
betterunix 13y ago
There is something that angers me a bit about this sentiment, and I am speaking as a US citizen here. Snowden has harmed the US government by embarrassing it, causing civil rights groups to file lawsuits, and by causing a trade agreement to possibly fail over his request for asylum? It sounds like you are saying we should just keep quiet about government abuses, which is basically the opposite of what America is supposed to stand for.
- freehunter 13y ago
  I'm not arguing right or wrong. Just that yes, in fact, the US has been hurt by this. I want to know why you're jumping to the conclusion that I think this is okay. I never once implied anything of the sort. If I tattle on the school bully and he gets detention, he has been hurt by me (even though once he catches me I'll be hurt worse).
  - blueprint 13y ago
    A bully's actions are detrimental to his own self as well as others and to awaken a bully has no implicit cause to harm the bully. On the contrary, it is motivated by love. Under the guidance of those who are in power currently, the US will be run into the ground. Do you know why that will be the result? It's because of falsehood that our society is being ruined. It will never happen that revealing the truth will ruin a society. So our efforts to reveal the facts of what is happening in reality are not to the detriment of the country - it is to save it from destruction. That's why I demand evidence of your words. How has the US been hurt by this? You said it is fact, so please show us something we can confirm.
    - freehunter 13y ago
      Seriously how does a simple comment like "yeah, getting called out hurts" lead to this much fucking witch-hunting? I feel like you guys are about to dox me and send SWAT to my house. Why aren't you ganging up on kalms, who responded in agreement? I already answered your question that you're somehow still demanding an answer to. There's a TV channel devoted to people who want to ignore the fact that someone responded to their question and make conveniently and intentionally false accusations in an attempt to discredit them. I broke my hand once, and before I could get to the hospital the bone started to heal. It needed to be rebroken in order to heal properly. Sure the doctor broke my hand out of love for his patient. IT STILL FUCKING HURT.
blueprint 13y ago
As far as I remember this country was created for the living people, not for the wealth and power of the aristocracy that has assumed control of it. No matter how much the media conflate the two, the USA is not equivalent to its government. Nor is it the same as its foreign policy or international political image. US society is made up of real people and there is no evidence that Snowden's information has harmed the society. But let's take it further. If you suppose that the USA's image was harmed, you should realize the fact that Snowden did not harm its image. It was harmed by the activities which Snowden's leaks revealed.
Uhhrrr 13y ago
It is possible to harm the USG and help the US at the same time.
markdown 13y ago
Yeah, this is why North Korea gets upset every time one of their people defects and reveals the human rights abuses of their government. Those people are scum, embarrassing their government like that!!