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I'm not sure the protection of the German state is something the US will care about: Khalid El-Masri (born June 29, 1963) is a German citizen who was mistaken

I'm not sure the protection of the German state is something the US will care about: Khalid El-Masri (born June 29, 1963) is a German citizen who was mistakenly abducted by the Macedonian Police, and handed-over to the U.S. CIA, whose officers interrogated, sodomized and tortured him. While in CIA hands, he was flown to Afghanistan, where he was held in a black site, interrogated, beaten, strip-searched and subjected to inhuman and degrading treatment, tantamount to torture. After El-Masri held hunger strikes, and was detained for four months in the "Salt Pit", the CIA finally admitted his arrest and torture were a mistake and released him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_al-Masri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_al-Masri

andrewcooke 13y ago
snowden is a white american. americans don't (in general - see reactions here to nsa) care about foreigners (especially coloured ones - guantanamo), but they get upset if a white american is hurt. so this won't happen with him.
- artto 13y ago
  Remember Bradley Manning?
  - andrewcooke 13y ago
    ah, true. he's gay? maybe that makes him an honorary black? i don't fully understand. any americans here can help me? is there anyone you stick up for? or is it just a big game of last under the bus wins?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - trotsky 13y ago
      rich white people
    - pekk 13y ago
      Realize that you are here hating on all Americans, because supposedly they all hate on every minority group.
    - angersock 13y ago
      If you're going to troll, put more effort into it. You just come off as a jerk here. At least in America we know how to properly capitalize the language.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  It's not so much about race... But this issue goes to show how slippery the slope is once you make exemptions to human rights...
  - andrewcooke 13y ago
    maybe this is getting a bit off-topic, but i did live in the usa for a while - my partner had a sabbatical at yale. and pretty much everything in new haven seemed to come down to race. where you lived. what you drove. which shops you used. race was by far the best indicator i found for almost anything i cared to think of. i guess maybe connecticut is particularly racist and as you go further south things are more balanced - i wouldn't know. but it's not just me, is it? if we're talking about justice then america's legal system is famous for how it discriminates against coloured people. that and its size are what its known for, internationally. it's pretty much designed to kill blacks, right? so to say that it's "not much about race" seems pretty weird. that seemed to be the defining characteristic of american culture - and particularly its legal system - to me. i'm sorry if this comes across as america-bashing. but recently i've been told here so many times that my rights don't matter because i'm not american. so it's got the point where, well, we're just being realists, right? compassion, mutual respect, that kind of thing aren't what life is about...
    - cinquemb 13y ago
      I posted this here a while back[0], and it speaks to what you are saying… Even I have been treated better by complete strangers in Northern Africa than I do in the US… We can play all the PC games, but the undertones are pervasive as it always has been here… In the words of Langston Hughes: "America never was America to me" [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694314
    - theorique 13y ago
      i guess maybe connecticut is particularly racist and as you go further south things are more balanced - i wouldn't know. Generally, the stereotype is that the North is less racist and the South is more. Because of the War between the States (1861-1865) - Southern states were slave states and Northern states were free states. It's more nuanced than that, but that's the main narrative.
zimbatm 13y ago
Technically they can do it but the political implications would be much different. Snowden is not a no-name citizen, abducting him would create an international diplomatic incident.

andrewcooke 13y ago

snowden is a white american. americans don't (in general - see reactions here to nsa) care about foreigners (especially coloured ones - guantanamo), but they get upset if a white american is hurt. so this won't happen with him.

artto 13y ago
Remember Bradley Manning?
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  ah, true. he's gay? maybe that makes him an honorary black? i don't fully understand. any americans here can help me? is there anyone you stick up for? or is it just a big game of last under the bus wins?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - trotsky 13y ago
    rich white people
  - pekk 13y ago
    Realize that you are here hating on all Americans, because supposedly they all hate on every minority group.
  - angersock 13y ago
    If you're going to troll, put more effort into it. You just come off as a jerk here. At least in America we know how to properly capitalize the language.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
It's not so much about race... But this issue goes to show how slippery the slope is once you make exemptions to human rights...
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  maybe this is getting a bit off-topic, but i did live in the usa for a while - my partner had a sabbatical at yale. and pretty much everything in new haven seemed to come down to race. where you lived. what you drove. which shops you used. race was by far the best indicator i found for almost anything i cared to think of. i guess maybe connecticut is particularly racist and as you go further south things are more balanced - i wouldn't know. but it's not just me, is it? if we're talking about justice then america's legal system is famous for how it discriminates against coloured people. that and its size are what its known for, internationally. it's pretty much designed to kill blacks, right? so to say that it's "not much about race" seems pretty weird. that seemed to be the defining characteristic of american culture - and particularly its legal system - to me. i'm sorry if this comes across as america-bashing. but recently i've been told here so many times that my rights don't matter because i'm not american. so it's got the point where, well, we're just being realists, right? compassion, mutual respect, that kind of thing aren't what life is about...
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    I posted this here a while back[0], and it speaks to what you are saying… Even I have been treated better by complete strangers in Northern Africa than I do in the US… We can play all the PC games, but the undertones are pervasive as it always has been here… In the words of Langston Hughes: "America never was America to me" [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694314
  - theorique 13y ago
    i guess maybe connecticut is particularly racist and as you go further south things are more balanced - i wouldn't know. Generally, the stereotype is that the North is less racist and the South is more. Because of the War between the States (1861-1865) - Southern states were slave states and Northern states were free states. It's more nuanced than that, but that's the main narrative.

zimbatm 13y ago

Technically they can do it but the political implications would be much different. Snowden is not a no-name citizen, abducting him would create an international diplomatic incident.