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Of course what people don't really understand is that religion today is government of yesterday (give or take a millenium ... well probably give). Some religion

by waps 13y ago

Of course what people don't really understand is that religion today is government of yesterday (give or take a millenium ... well probably give). Some religions, one in particular, still sees it that way.

csense 13y ago
While it's true that religion generally had a lot more influence over politics and policy in the past (the recent past moreso than the present, and the distant past moreso than the recent past, at least in the USA), saying that "once upon a time, religion and government were one and the same" ranges between, at best, a gross oversimplification of complex sociopolitical circumstances, and at worst, a factually incorrect misrepresentation. Exactly where your statement falls on that scale depends on the exact places and times you're talking about. Disclaimer: Everything I know about medieval European history, I learned from Crusader Kings 2.
- akiselev 13y ago
  One of the primary claims to power in medieval Europe was the divine decree, something that was usually "approved" by the Roman Catholic Church, so yes religion has had an absolutely insane amount of influence on politics, so much so that you can easily argue that it was responsible for predominance of monarchies and dictatorships until the enlightenment (and even then it took centuries). Entire governments have risen and fallen on top of the backs of religions and their schisms and reformations.
  - jivatmanx 13y ago
    Yes, but for both good and ill. The reformation's idea was that no authority or intercessor was needed to interpret or use the bible. I'll skip the details, but this idea was an essential precursor for the idea of self-government, and the enlightenment in general.
  - Locke1689 13y ago
    No, most claims to power were correlated with the divine decree. You have yet to prove that there was any causation.
- rektide 13y ago
  If you have more than 100 hours of Crusader Kings 2, you know historical reality better than most history majors. Sure one may know history, but do you know the principles of interconnectedness that drove history onwards? There's nothing like sitting down with a wide set of empirical data for being able to deeply get the genuine causalities. Anything else just doesn't cut it, which is why virtual simulation and general modeling- Engelbart's dream- still speaks such promise to so many techies.
  - waps 13y ago
    Alternatively you could look up some actual history. Look up a few terms : caliph, devshirme, dhimmi, brahmin, dalit, shogunate (not the game, the real one, read until you know what the "stick and walk" law is), devshirme Now imagine being a regular joe under such a system.

by waps 13y ago

csense 13y ago

While it's true that religion generally had a lot more influence over politics and policy in the past (the recent past moreso than the present, and the distant past moreso than the recent past, at least in the USA), saying that "once upon a time, religion and government were one and the same" ranges between, at best, a gross oversimplification of complex sociopolitical circumstances, and at worst, a factually incorrect misrepresentation. Exactly where your statement falls on that scale depends on the exact places and times you're talking about. Disclaimer: Everything I know about medieval European history, I learned from Crusader Kings 2.

akiselev 13y ago
One of the primary claims to power in medieval Europe was the divine decree, something that was usually "approved" by the Roman Catholic Church, so yes religion has had an absolutely insane amount of influence on politics, so much so that you can easily argue that it was responsible for predominance of monarchies and dictatorships until the enlightenment (and even then it took centuries). Entire governments have risen and fallen on top of the backs of religions and their schisms and reformations.
- jivatmanx 13y ago
  Yes, but for both good and ill. The reformation's idea was that no authority or intercessor was needed to interpret or use the bible. I'll skip the details, but this idea was an essential precursor for the idea of self-government, and the enlightenment in general.
- Locke1689 13y ago
  No, most claims to power were correlated with the divine decree. You have yet to prove that there was any causation.
rektide 13y ago
If you have more than 100 hours of Crusader Kings 2, you know historical reality better than most history majors. Sure one may know history, but do you know the principles of interconnectedness that drove history onwards? There's nothing like sitting down with a wide set of empirical data for being able to deeply get the genuine causalities. Anything else just doesn't cut it, which is why virtual simulation and general modeling- Engelbart's dream- still speaks such promise to so many techies.
- waps 13y ago
  Alternatively you could look up some actual history. Look up a few terms : caliph, devshirme, dhimmi, brahmin, dalit, shogunate (not the game, the real one, read until you know what the "stick and walk" law is), devshirme Now imagine being a regular joe under such a system.