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> Wine and beer in moderation is actually perfectly healthy. The idea that moderate consumption of alcohol is "perfectly healthy" is actually quite debatable.

> Wine and beer in moderation is actually perfectly healthy. The idea that moderate consumption of alcohol is "perfectly healthy" is actually quite debatable. Taking red wine as a an example because of the popular belief that it has notable health benefits when consumed in moderation, a few points: 1. Many of the studies on the supposed health benefits of red wine are inconclusive. For instance, we still can't explain the French Paradox. 2. Last year, it came to light that a researcher who was behind some of the studies on the benefits of resveratrol falsified data. A decent amount of the hype around red wine in recent years was centered on resveratrol and it's important to note that even if there are benefits, the actual relationship between compounds like this and human health are in most cases not yet clearly established. 3. Red wine contains known carcinogens. 4. Even moderate consumption can add significant calories to one's diet. For example, if you're a male and drink two glasses (which is considered a moderate, "healthy" amount) three days a week, you're adding nearly 3,000 calories to your monthly caloric intake. Depending on when and how you drink your wine, you might also consume more food because of wine's impact on hormones associated with appetite. By the way, this is even worse in most cases for beer, where with some major brands, a single can or bottle a day can easily add 4,000+ calories over the course of a month. 5. Many of the potentially beneficial compounds in wine are available through other food sources that come with fewer drawbacks. In other words, you don't need to drink a glass or two of red wine every day to get your antioxidants. The bottom line: if you're going to enjoy a glass or two of wine (or beer) with a meal, you shouldn't justify it on the belief that it's "perfectly healthy".

tptacek 13y ago
3. Red wine contains known carcinogens. So do potatoes. I picked this one point out to rebut with a potato, but I think my potato wields equally devastating attacks against the rest of your points, too. Olive oil, oily fish, grapes, you name it: lots of things that currently do seem very healthy in moderation have a downside if abused. One thing my potato is very unlikely to do: cause a psychically shattering experience that severs the last link between a troubled mind and the reality it inhabits. Not so much with the warning label requirements, with our trusty potato.
- 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
  I would assume you're referring to potato-based processed foods (like potato chips) that been have cooked at high temperature. If not, and you're seriously trying to argue that eating a small amount of potatoes exposes one to cancer risk, it would be more enlightening if you posted an actual comparison between the levels of carcinogens in a sack of lowly potatoes and a bottle of red wine. Hint: there's a reason the bottle of red wine you bought at the store has a warning label and the sack of potatoes you bought with it doesn't. In any case, while I appreciate your attempt at being clever, the whole point is that we're not talking about abuse here, we're talking about moderate consumption. Let's be clear: there is debate as to whether moderate alcohol consumption provides any net benefit to health. Moderate consumption of, say, grapes or salmon, will not add 3,000-plus excess calories to your diet each and every month. And there are plenty of studies showing that regular consumption of fruit and Omega-3 rich fish is associated with significant health benefits. I used to be a wine snob, and still enjoy a glass every now and again, so I'm not anti-alcohol. But if you'd like to believe that moderate consumption of wine or beer is about as healthy as eating fruit and fish regularly, or that eating fruit and fish regularly is about as risky as having a glass or two of wine every night, I respectfully hope you don't become a nutritionist.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    I'm referring to acrylamide.
    - 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
      Acrylamide is found in foods, like potato chips, that have been produced by certain high-temperature cooking techniques such as frying. To suggest that a potato (or three) carries with it the same cancer risk as alcohol, which is considered a Group 1 carcinogen by the World Health Organization, is disingenuous.
      - tptacek 13y ago
        No, acrylamide is extremely common, in many cooked foods and in many raw foods. It's a myth that acrylamide is the product of deep frying food.
conroe64 13y ago
Regarding point 4, most of the calories that come from red wine is alcohol. Alcohol isn't metabolized the same way as other foods, so comparing calories from alcohol to other foods is misleading. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholCaloriesAndWeight.html http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholCaloriesAndWeight.ht... The rest of what you write doesn't really validate your conclusion. Actually, there has been a study indicating the reverse. People who drink live longer. http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/stories/study-abstaining-from-alcohol-significantly-shortens-life http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/stories/study-abstaining-f...
- 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
  1. You're right: it isn't metabolized the same way as other foods. If you want to get really technical, you should look at the impact of alcohol on fat oxidation. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3280601 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3280601. The term "beer belly" is not a misnomer. 2. The study you cited looked at people above the age of 55. There was another similar study published in 2009 that also looked at alcohol consumption above the age of 55. It too found a correlation between moderate alcohol consumption and longevity, but after factoring for disability and socioeconomic status, the correlation dropped substantially. It was still significant, but the researchers noted that other factors not considered could fully explain the correlation. So to suggest that drinking a glass or two of wine a day is a "perfectly healthy" activity that will lengthen your life is quite premature. On the other hand, the evidence showing that regular consumption of fruits, vegetables, fish, etc. is beneficial to health is pretty conclusive.
  - conroe64 13y ago
    1. From your link "We conclude that ethanol was a preferred fuel preventing fat, and to lesser degrees, CHO and protein, from being oxidized." So for the few hours that alcohol is in your system, it is the preferred substance for oxidation. It's quite a leap to take that to development of a beer belly. From mine, "Alcohol contains calories, but drinking alcohol doesn't lead to weight gain, according to extensive medical research, and some studies report a small reduction in weight for women who drink" This is about as clear as you can get that alcohol doesn't lead to weight gain. Care to directly address this? 2. That's a false dichotomy, You can eat fish and drink wine, too. Also, you seem to be shifting goal posts. First you write that alcohol can't be considered "perfectly healthy", and now you write that it is premature to be suggest that it can be considered "perfectly healthy" and will lengthen your life. Why does something need to extend your life to be perfectly healthy?

tptacek 13y ago

3. Red wine contains known carcinogens. So do potatoes. I picked this one point out to rebut with a potato, but I think my potato wields equally devastating attacks against the rest of your points, too. Olive oil, oily fish, grapes, you name it: lots of things that currently do seem very healthy in moderation have a downside if abused. One thing my potato is very unlikely to do: cause a psychically shattering experience that severs the last link between a troubled mind and the reality it inhabits. Not so much with the warning label requirements, with our trusty potato.

7Figures2Commas 13y ago
I would assume you're referring to potato-based processed foods (like potato chips) that been have cooked at high temperature. If not, and you're seriously trying to argue that eating a small amount of potatoes exposes one to cancer risk, it would be more enlightening if you posted an actual comparison between the levels of carcinogens in a sack of lowly potatoes and a bottle of red wine. Hint: there's a reason the bottle of red wine you bought at the store has a warning label and the sack of potatoes you bought with it doesn't. In any case, while I appreciate your attempt at being clever, the whole point is that we're not talking about abuse here, we're talking about moderate consumption. Let's be clear: there is debate as to whether moderate alcohol consumption provides any net benefit to health. Moderate consumption of, say, grapes or salmon, will not add 3,000-plus excess calories to your diet each and every month. And there are plenty of studies showing that regular consumption of fruit and Omega-3 rich fish is associated with significant health benefits. I used to be a wine snob, and still enjoy a glass every now and again, so I'm not anti-alcohol. But if you'd like to believe that moderate consumption of wine or beer is about as healthy as eating fruit and fish regularly, or that eating fruit and fish regularly is about as risky as having a glass or two of wine every night, I respectfully hope you don't become a nutritionist.
- tptacek 13y ago
  I'm referring to acrylamide.
  - 7Figures2Commas 13y ago
    Acrylamide is found in foods, like potato chips, that have been produced by certain high-temperature cooking techniques such as frying. To suggest that a potato (or three) carries with it the same cancer risk as alcohol, which is considered a Group 1 carcinogen by the World Health Organization, is disingenuous.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      No, acrylamide is extremely common, in many cooked foods and in many raw foods. It's a myth that acrylamide is the product of deep frying food.

conroe64 13y ago

Regarding point 4, most of the calories that come from red wine is alcohol. Alcohol isn't metabolized the same way as other foods, so comparing calories from alcohol to other foods is misleading. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholCaloriesAndWeight.html http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholCaloriesAndWeight.ht... The rest of what you write doesn't really validate your conclusion. Actually, there has been a study indicating the reverse. People who drink live longer. http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/stories/study-abstaining-from-alcohol-significantly-shortens-life http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/stories/study-abstaining-f...

7Figures2Commas 13y ago
1. You're right: it isn't metabolized the same way as other foods. If you want to get really technical, you should look at the impact of alcohol on fat oxidation. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3280601 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3280601. The term "beer belly" is not a misnomer. 2. The study you cited looked at people above the age of 55. There was another similar study published in 2009 that also looked at alcohol consumption above the age of 55. It too found a correlation between moderate alcohol consumption and longevity, but after factoring for disability and socioeconomic status, the correlation dropped substantially. It was still significant, but the researchers noted that other factors not considered could fully explain the correlation. So to suggest that drinking a glass or two of wine a day is a "perfectly healthy" activity that will lengthen your life is quite premature. On the other hand, the evidence showing that regular consumption of fruits, vegetables, fish, etc. is beneficial to health is pretty conclusive.
- conroe64 13y ago
  1. From your link "We conclude that ethanol was a preferred fuel preventing fat, and to lesser degrees, CHO and protein, from being oxidized." So for the few hours that alcohol is in your system, it is the preferred substance for oxidation. It's quite a leap to take that to development of a beer belly. From mine, "Alcohol contains calories, but drinking alcohol doesn't lead to weight gain, according to extensive medical research, and some studies report a small reduction in weight for women who drink" This is about as clear as you can get that alcohol doesn't lead to weight gain. Care to directly address this? 2. That's a false dichotomy, You can eat fish and drink wine, too. Also, you seem to be shifting goal posts. First you write that alcohol can't be considered "perfectly healthy", and now you write that it is premature to be suggest that it can be considered "perfectly healthy" and will lengthen your life. Why does something need to extend your life to be perfectly healthy?