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That's the one I have no problems with. Whenever I rant on the phone about politics, I hope someone of those I actually mean by that, instead of just a friend w

That's the one I have no problems with. Whenever I rant on the phone about politics, I hope someone of those I actually mean by that, instead of just a friend who did me no harm, is listening to it. The same goes for any other medium (as phone conversations don't seem to be included in this) Well, let's say I would have no problems with it, if I wouldn't worry about the chilling effects it would have on others.

Vivtek 13y ago
The politicians themselves aren't listening - and by being a surveillance target, you've already been othered to the point that your viewpoint will simply be taken as a sign you're untrustworthy and a dangerous element. It would be nice if the politicians were required to hear complaints, but that only works if you're rich enough to make a difference in the Game.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Oh, I don't think it would change anything, I guess people deep into it are briefed on more arguments than I could ever dream of. They're probably perfectly aware of and okay with what they're doing, too. I still find this is one of the rare cases where narcissism actually is helpful, because I am not intimidated in the least by the idea of being spied on. I'm like fuck yeah: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2660 http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2660 Being caught spying on others = super embarrassing, being spied on = hilarious. But then again, I never had anything used against me, I would sing a different tune real quick in that case. So I don't mean to belittle it in general. But if anyone can get a kick out of it while being against it and vocal about that, more power to them, right?
  - Vivtek 13y ago
    I have to agree!
- hindsightbias 13y ago
  Maybe not the politicians, but their staff: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2005/05/24/terror-watch-last-minute-letter.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2005/05/24/terror-watc...
drunkenmasta 13y ago
What if the intent of these "leaks" was less (inform the public) and more (instil fear for the chilling effects?) It seems that every day we see stories about the govt or police getting away with this or that but the population never does anything about it. Pretty soon everyone is desensitized to it and a couple of weeks later everyone is joking about the whole thing by making memes about the NSA listening to this or that.
- tootie 13y ago
  It would seem the effect is to inspire confidence that our national secutiry apparatus is doing everything it can to head off threats before they happen. It seems that 90% of the outrage is container on reddit and HN.
  - runjake 13y ago
    > It seems that 90% of the outrage is container on reddit and HN. Then you seriously need to expand your horizons on information intake, because human rights orgs are pissed off, Ecuador and Hong Kong are pissed off. Germany, and the EU as a whole are considering a wide range of actions, and so on.
    - embolism 13y ago
      Ecuador and Hong Kong are pissed off... Ironic given that in both of these countries, warrantless wiretapping is legal and routine.
      - erikvanzijst 13y ago
        Citation needed.
        embolism 13y ago
        'Citation needed' is essentially 'I can't be bothered to Google' however: Ecuador: http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/exclusive-documents-illuminate-ecuadors-spying-practices http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/exclusive-documents-illumi... China: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/world/asia/with-snowden-gone-hong-kong-focuses-on-us-surveillance.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/world/asia/with-snowden-go... "Security experts and democracy proponents say that mainland China’s domestic surveillance operations in Hong Kong are far more extensive than the American effort. But those operations have largely disappeared from public discussion as attention has focused on the many details released by Mr. Snowden."

Vivtek 13y ago

The politicians themselves aren't listening - and by being a surveillance target, you've already been othered to the point that your viewpoint will simply be taken as a sign you're untrustworthy and a dangerous element. It would be nice if the politicians were required to hear complaints, but that only works if you're rich enough to make a difference in the Game.

PavlovsCat 13y ago
Oh, I don't think it would change anything, I guess people deep into it are briefed on more arguments than I could ever dream of. They're probably perfectly aware of and okay with what they're doing, too. I still find this is one of the rare cases where narcissism actually is helpful, because I am not intimidated in the least by the idea of being spied on. I'm like fuck yeah: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2660 http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2660 Being caught spying on others = super embarrassing, being spied on = hilarious. But then again, I never had anything used against me, I would sing a different tune real quick in that case. So I don't mean to belittle it in general. But if anyone can get a kick out of it while being against it and vocal about that, more power to them, right?
- Vivtek 13y ago
  I have to agree!
hindsightbias 13y ago
Maybe not the politicians, but their staff: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2005/05/24/terror-watch-last-minute-letter.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2005/05/24/terror-watc...

drunkenmasta 13y ago

What if the intent of these "leaks" was less (inform the public) and more (instil fear for the chilling effects?) It seems that every day we see stories about the govt or police getting away with this or that but the population never does anything about it. Pretty soon everyone is desensitized to it and a couple of weeks later everyone is joking about the whole thing by making memes about the NSA listening to this or that.

tootie 13y ago
It would seem the effect is to inspire confidence that our national secutiry apparatus is doing everything it can to head off threats before they happen. It seems that 90% of the outrage is container on reddit and HN.
- runjake 13y ago
  > It seems that 90% of the outrage is container on reddit and HN. Then you seriously need to expand your horizons on information intake, because human rights orgs are pissed off, Ecuador and Hong Kong are pissed off. Germany, and the EU as a whole are considering a wide range of actions, and so on.
  - embolism 13y ago
    Ecuador and Hong Kong are pissed off... Ironic given that in both of these countries, warrantless wiretapping is legal and routine.
    - erikvanzijst 13y ago
      Citation needed.
      - embolism 13y ago
        'Citation needed' is essentially 'I can't be bothered to Google' however: Ecuador: http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/exclusive-documents-illuminate-ecuadors-spying-practices http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/exclusive-documents-illumi... China: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/world/asia/with-snowden-gone-hong-kong-focuses-on-us-surveillance.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/world/asia/with-snowden-go... "Security experts and democracy proponents say that mainland China’s domestic surveillance operations in Hong Kong are far more extensive than the American effort. But those operations have largely disappeared from public discussion as attention has focused on the many details released by Mr. Snowden."