5 ms·

Sell everything

39 points by j0ncc 13y ago

gbog 13y ago
Great idea. I'd even say to try to avoid buying a tv, as this is the most powerful brainwashing machine you can get. In the same vein, I like to say one's freedom in invert proportional to the number of keys in the pocket.
- marshallhaas 13y ago
  Love the "keys in the pocket" line
- merlincorey 13y ago
  I disagree... I use a large LCD television for my laptop's main display. I don't have a subscription to cable or satellite service, but when I want to watch Hulu or Netflix, it works very well.
  - shire 13y ago
    Hard to beat $8 dollar Netflix.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  RE: TV Cut cable, save the money, buy a projector after a year, hook it up to your computer, subscribe to Hulu/Netflix and enjoy some media when you want without TV. I hate TV anymore, mostly because when I do watch media, I watch comedies and commercials diminish my enjoyment.
- eru 13y ago
  That's why one keeps a pickset?
  - kryten 13y ago
    Ha! A true hacker answer :-)
- kryten 13y ago
  Spot on. Another TV-free household here. I had some of my daughter's friends over for a sleep over last year (ugh) and we had a 15-year old 26" Sony Trinitron CRT which I was ridiculed for by them as they all have massive plasma/LCD and 3D units. For some strange reason I felt slightly guilty about this but after a discussion with the other half, we decided that this was the symptom of a problem with society rather than a problem with us and that it needed fixing. Couple of days later, it went on the street with a sign taped on "Free TV". Within 10 minutes someone had taken it. A year later, we all sleep better, we all communicate better and we are all a lot closer and we're also £150 a year better off (we have to pay TV license in the UK). All it does is consume time and divide people.
  - Sven7 13y ago
    How much time now gets spent on desktop/laptop/smartphone per day per family member? Just curious if these numbers jump after the TV goes.
    - kryten 13y ago
      Very little. Kids and wife dont use computer at all. I use it for work and HN (currently HN whilst waiting for compiler!). We have one smartphone but it's rarely used unless commuting.
      - Sven7 13y ago
        Good to hear. Sometimes I feel, in the "consume time and divide people" department, the Internet beats TV hands down. Also it is one of those easy roads to take, as it keeps the kids fully occupied. So it's nice to see what you guys are doing. Keep it up!
    - _mulder_ 13y ago
      I've heard of a few parents who have gone TV free but allow their kids phones, iPads and laptops for homework, etc. End result, they see less of their kids because they're all in their rooms watching streaming TV or videos. Results may vary of course
- Lucadg 13y ago
  I just googled "one's freedom in inversely proportional to the number of keys in the pocket" and found nothing. You have just written a really powerful sentence. I lived mostly traveling for the last 13 years and I have very little stuff. I constantly write/think/discuss about it and I rarely found such a great sentence. Congratulations.
ronilan 13y ago
Volume reduction works great until you get to the kids Legos and Pillow Pets... Isabella the purple unicorn is not for sale.
- kryten 13y ago
  It works really well with children. Having too much crap is thoroughly depressing for them. They don't like the idea of volume reduction to start with but they appreciate it afterwards. I've brought mine (3 girls aged 1, 6 and 9) up without strong attachments to brands, advertising and materialism. Isabella the purple unicorn has never been an issue for me. In fact, they're rather more attached to their rain coats as that means we're going out somewhere interesting or their pencil cases as they can create something.
- avalaunch 13y ago
  As a kid my parents would throw a yard sale once a year where we were encouraged to sell all of our old stuff. My parents would suggest low prices to make sure everything moved but ultimately it was up to us to set the prices and we got to keep all of the money. I always thought it was a lot of fun. I might hold on to a prized toy here and there but for the most part I enjoyed selling my old toys. EDIT: I think the trick was letting us own the process. We helped place the ad in the paper (when we were old enough), we helped design the signs to hang up in the neighborhood, we helped hang them up, we chose which toys to sell, what to price them, we haggled with the buyers (very fun), and we spent the money after (or saved it if you were my brother).
rokhayakebe 13y ago
Then, buy the same thing.
Flavius 13y ago
How about selling everything and NOT buying it back? Because halfway through the article he goes: In Victoria, I bought all new furniture — TV, couches, bed, kitchenware, etc — and still had cash left over from the sale of my old stuff. That’s right, I made money. This can only work if you're filthy rich. The article ignores 90%+ of the world's population who can't sell everything because they own pretty much nothing. And yeah, these people can be hackers or founders as well. It's hard to think that somebody just learned today what is the default for most of the people and he feels like everyone should profit from this amazing discovery. A better title for this article would be: How to have more fun with your money by selling expensive stuff and buy more expensive stuff
- iamntz 13y ago
  A new book will be released soon: How to sell what you don't have. Ponzi edition. ^_^
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Bed, couch, tv and kitchenware isnt exactly the model of decadence, even among the poor in Canada.
  - Flavius 13y ago
    That's true, but selling everything you have just to buy more is not the best idea regardless of your social position. If you move to a new city for example you could just rent an apartment that has most of the stuff you need for a fraction of the cost and effort of buying your own.
- eightyone 13y ago
  Seriously. Or call it: Sell everything and then buy it back again. This guy sounds like he's trying to impress people. "Look how Zen I am, you guys." He quotes Tyler Durden and then goes directly against that quote. Tyler Durden didn't say sell all your stuff and then go buy new stuff so you can finally start to be anti-consumerism and minimalistic. The most anti-consumeristic thing he could have done was pay for the truck and not expel resources so he could buy new things. It's like people who wake up and say, "I want to start buying ethical clothing" and then they go throw out their entire wardrobe to buy new clothes. The most ethical clothes are the clothes you have on right now.
mbrock 13y ago
I appreciate stories like this more when the author just tells their story. When you like something I guess it's natural to want other people to follow. But writing that uses this mode of "you should" seems to assume too much about the audience. We might be in a totally different situation. For example I'm just settling into my new apartment after living in dorms and collectives all my life -- it's my first time even owning a couch.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  I don't have any problem with the writer assuming the reader can intelligently apply the article to him or herself.
  - mbrock 13y ago
    That's where I'm coming from, too -- which is why I prefer to just hear the author's own story. But let's not quibble...
Schiphol 13y ago
The title made me assume this post would be about downshifting. But no, it's about "refreshing" your looks and furniture by throwing everything away and buying new stuff. Ehm, OK.
atirip 13y ago
I moved many times. My golden rule is - when packing, give/throw away 50%, then by unpacking give/throw away another 50%. And try to move once in 5 years. Keeps you sane and fresh. Oh, and because of all that "training" i really can relaocate to anywhere (like another country) with just a backpack and smile on my face.
wyclif 13y ago
...except your books.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  I know, intellectually, that some books simply expire. They simply aren't relevant any more. Such books can't be given to a library and can't be offloaded to a book exchange. Some even, due to changes in the world they refer to, have taken on a negative value because they can deceive a trusting reader. In good conscience these cannot be given to someone else. I console myself with these thoughts whenever I dispose of a book. Because I find the disposal of books to be thoroughly traumatic. Giving up my old law books was heart breaking. So too my teenage copies of Learn to Teach Yourself C++ in 21.75 Minutes for Dumb Idiots. It all hurt. Beds? Chairs? Clothes? Meh. I would be OK with starting from a scorched earth. But my books are sacred. I do not choose them lightly, because I know that parting will be so painful.
revorad 13y ago
Please, if you are rich, stop explaining the idea of freedom from stuff as if it’s a trick that even you have somehow mastered. The only way to own very little and be safe is to be rich. http://vruba.tumblr.com/post/45256059128/wealth-risk-and-stuff http://vruba.tumblr.com/post/45256059128/wealth-risk-and-stu...
- acqq 13y ago
  The article author sees it somehow insightful to sell old things in order to start buying anew (having sold the old clothes, he is glad he can buy the new ones that match). What a discovery!
easy_rider 13y ago
I think the point the author is trying to make that having to much emotional attachment to material objects, with side-effects like hoarding these items, or being upset when something happens to them can be potentially toxic for you. Sorry, I just don't have the convenience of time, money and means of transport to afford the kind of leisure the author is advocating. For one, I bought a house pretty much owning some electronics, couple guitars and amps, a full backpack, a garbage bag of cables and a couple full of clothes. I pay regular visits to my local thrift store, and they have some really nice mint stuff (or easy to refurbish) for cheap. You can also get a lot of 'sets' of items/furniture if you like your possessions to "match". People like the author sometimes basically dump their entire living room there. Also you won't feel as bad for reselling it if you end up hating the stuff, as you didn't have that big money attached to it, which mitigates a good chunk of perceived emotional value.
staunch 13y ago
It's easy to get rid of your stuff when you're moving. You're being forced to do either the chore of moving it or selling it. I haven't figured out a way to get myself to go through the pain of sorting things, throwing them away, and selling them when I'm not moving. So, things pile up. It really bothers me too. Someone could profit by helping me with this problem. Maybe a company that comes to your house and takes away everything you don't want for a base small fee, then make a profit by selling your old stuff? Maybe they take 50%?
- revorad 13y ago
  This startup is doing exactly that - http://usesold.com/ http://usesold.com/
  - VLM 13y ago
    "800 got junk" is a 20 year old franchise operation using more or less the business model above with hundreds of franchise locations. A 150 year old non-profit with a nearly identical business model is the Salvation Army, although they only do donations and don't pay for junk other than kind of optimistic tax donation forms. They do have the model down WRT truck rolls up to house and junk disappears to be sold at a resale store, however no money officially changes hands at junk acquisition time. There are also innumerable decade or so old ebay resale operations which frankly are shoveling junk. Yes I'm sure there are some, but not many, specializing in "non-junk".
- VLM 13y ago
  "I haven't figured out a way to get myself to go through the pain of sorting things, throwing them away, and selling them when I'm not moving. So, things pile up...It really bothers me too." House rule, example not so much as allowed to hang up a new piece of art in the living room until the office cleanup is completed; Exactly one room is in "redecorating" mode at any given time, no more no less. Secondary house rule not so strictly enforced is the one room undergoing redecoration must be the oldest; rotation. Doesn't mean I'm obsessive about remodeling... due to life pressures etc I think the basement utility room once spent about two years in remodel status. Eventually I really wanted to replace the broken blinds in the living room, generating immense motivation to finish the utility room... "Someone could profit by helping me with this problem." I've got plenty of money. Gift economy. Everyone implementing this house rule should donate $5 to the EFF and we'll call it even.
josscrowcroft 13y ago
I accidentally left my suitcase on the Gatwick Express airport train this morning, containing practically everything I now own save for my passport, ukulele and current Macbook Air, which were all on my person... I only realised 10 minutes later when I got to the check-in desk. As I was on the shuttle back to the train, I started laughing. Everything I own? That's everything I own? I realised I didn't need any of it. A bit of a cliché, sure, and I'm a comfortably-off 25-year old single white male, apparently. When I got to the platform, I found my suitcase sitting on the train, about to trundle off into the morning. I looked at the case, a full 21kg of junk - the last 21kg - and suddenly felt weighed down, as if all these things were a constant restraint. One suitcase. There is a movement towards casting off our possessions to discover who we are; it's a tired story, as old as the hills. It points to the moon but it's not the moon. The junk we most want to lose, and most deserve to realise our freedom from, is metaphorical, it's spiritual baggage, attachments to stuff. My point here: if one suitcase of stuff is enough to be a mental burden, then when will I be happy? When there's nothing left? What about this body? Why not shed that also? You can have a monk in the Himalayas with more 'stuff' than the executive with a condo full of Ikea furniture. It doesn't matter. Depth and space are created (no, discovered) when we lose the attachments, not when we lose the stuff. Losing the stuff can be helpful and healthy, but it's not the ultimate truth. In truth, it's even a distraction for many. So I read this post and my laughter increased. All this stuff: it's all a joke! Just some thoughts as they come.
- VLM 13y ago
  "There is a movement towards casting off our possessions to discover who we are" That doesn't work if who you authentically are is an artisan, or at least for some arts. Some artisans/craftsman/hobbyists/makers/whatever are incredibly lucky WRT fitting the whole "throw your stuff away" meme. Your ukulele fits in your arms. Good for you. I need a forklift to move my larger metalworking machines. If I threw away all my tools, it wouldn't really help me as a tool creator/user. "Losing the stuff can be helpful and healthy, but it's not the ultimate truth." I'm convinced a lot of the push for it comes from profit seeking intermediaries. Sell you a hammer every year, so you use it once and throw it out. I occasionally still use some of my grandfathers inherited tools, which must put those people into fits.

39 points by j0ncc 13y ago

gbog 13y ago

Great idea. I'd even say to try to avoid buying a tv, as this is the most powerful brainwashing machine you can get. In the same vein, I like to say one's freedom in invert proportional to the number of keys in the pocket.

marshallhaas 13y ago
Love the "keys in the pocket" line
merlincorey 13y ago
I disagree... I use a large LCD television for my laptop's main display. I don't have a subscription to cable or satellite service, but when I want to watch Hulu or Netflix, it works very well.
- shire 13y ago
  Hard to beat $8 dollar Netflix.
drivebyacct2 13y ago
RE: TV Cut cable, save the money, buy a projector after a year, hook it up to your computer, subscribe to Hulu/Netflix and enjoy some media when you want without TV. I hate TV anymore, mostly because when I do watch media, I watch comedies and commercials diminish my enjoyment.
eru 13y ago
That's why one keeps a pickset?
- kryten 13y ago
  Ha! A true hacker answer :-)
kryten 13y ago
Spot on. Another TV-free household here. I had some of my daughter's friends over for a sleep over last year (ugh) and we had a 15-year old 26" Sony Trinitron CRT which I was ridiculed for by them as they all have massive plasma/LCD and 3D units. For some strange reason I felt slightly guilty about this but after a discussion with the other half, we decided that this was the symptom of a problem with society rather than a problem with us and that it needed fixing. Couple of days later, it went on the street with a sign taped on "Free TV". Within 10 minutes someone had taken it. A year later, we all sleep better, we all communicate better and we are all a lot closer and we're also £150 a year better off (we have to pay TV license in the UK). All it does is consume time and divide people.
- Sven7 13y ago
  How much time now gets spent on desktop/laptop/smartphone per day per family member? Just curious if these numbers jump after the TV goes.
  - kryten 13y ago
    Very little. Kids and wife dont use computer at all. I use it for work and HN (currently HN whilst waiting for compiler!). We have one smartphone but it's rarely used unless commuting.
    - Sven7 13y ago
      Good to hear. Sometimes I feel, in the "consume time and divide people" department, the Internet beats TV hands down. Also it is one of those easy roads to take, as it keeps the kids fully occupied. So it's nice to see what you guys are doing. Keep it up!
  - _mulder_ 13y ago
    I've heard of a few parents who have gone TV free but allow their kids phones, iPads and laptops for homework, etc. End result, they see less of their kids because they're all in their rooms watching streaming TV or videos. Results may vary of course
Lucadg 13y ago
I just googled "one's freedom in inversely proportional to the number of keys in the pocket" and found nothing. You have just written a really powerful sentence. I lived mostly traveling for the last 13 years and I have very little stuff. I constantly write/think/discuss about it and I rarely found such a great sentence. Congratulations.

ronilan 13y ago

Volume reduction works great until you get to the kids Legos and Pillow Pets... Isabella the purple unicorn is not for sale.

kryten 13y ago
It works really well with children. Having too much crap is thoroughly depressing for them. They don't like the idea of volume reduction to start with but they appreciate it afterwards. I've brought mine (3 girls aged 1, 6 and 9) up without strong attachments to brands, advertising and materialism. Isabella the purple unicorn has never been an issue for me. In fact, they're rather more attached to their rain coats as that means we're going out somewhere interesting or their pencil cases as they can create something.
avalaunch 13y ago
As a kid my parents would throw a yard sale once a year where we were encouraged to sell all of our old stuff. My parents would suggest low prices to make sure everything moved but ultimately it was up to us to set the prices and we got to keep all of the money. I always thought it was a lot of fun. I might hold on to a prized toy here and there but for the most part I enjoyed selling my old toys. EDIT: I think the trick was letting us own the process. We helped place the ad in the paper (when we were old enough), we helped design the signs to hang up in the neighborhood, we helped hang them up, we chose which toys to sell, what to price them, we haggled with the buyers (very fun), and we spent the money after (or saved it if you were my brother).

rokhayakebe 13y ago

Then, buy the same thing.

Flavius 13y ago

How about selling everything and NOT buying it back? Because halfway through the article he goes: In Victoria, I bought all new furniture — TV, couches, bed, kitchenware, etc — and still had cash left over from the sale of my old stuff. That’s right, I made money. This can only work if you're filthy rich. The article ignores 90%+ of the world's population who can't sell everything because they own pretty much nothing. And yeah, these people can be hackers or founders as well. It's hard to think that somebody just learned today what is the default for most of the people and he feels like everyone should profit from this amazing discovery. A better title for this article would be: How to have more fun with your money by selling expensive stuff and buy more expensive stuff

iamntz 13y ago
A new book will be released soon: How to sell what you don't have. Ponzi edition. ^_^
jamesaguilar 13y ago
Bed, couch, tv and kitchenware isnt exactly the model of decadence, even among the poor in Canada.
- Flavius 13y ago
  That's true, but selling everything you have just to buy more is not the best idea regardless of your social position. If you move to a new city for example you could just rent an apartment that has most of the stuff you need for a fraction of the cost and effort of buying your own.
eightyone 13y ago
Seriously. Or call it: Sell everything and then buy it back again. This guy sounds like he's trying to impress people. "Look how Zen I am, you guys." He quotes Tyler Durden and then goes directly against that quote. Tyler Durden didn't say sell all your stuff and then go buy new stuff so you can finally start to be anti-consumerism and minimalistic. The most anti-consumeristic thing he could have done was pay for the truck and not expel resources so he could buy new things. It's like people who wake up and say, "I want to start buying ethical clothing" and then they go throw out their entire wardrobe to buy new clothes. The most ethical clothes are the clothes you have on right now.

mbrock 13y ago

I appreciate stories like this more when the author just tells their story. When you like something I guess it's natural to want other people to follow. But writing that uses this mode of "you should" seems to assume too much about the audience. We might be in a totally different situation. For example I'm just settling into my new apartment after living in dorms and collectives all my life -- it's my first time even owning a couch.

jamesaguilar 13y ago
I don't have any problem with the writer assuming the reader can intelligently apply the article to him or herself.
- mbrock 13y ago
  That's where I'm coming from, too -- which is why I prefer to just hear the author's own story. But let's not quibble...

Schiphol 13y ago

The title made me assume this post would be about downshifting. But no, it's about "refreshing" your looks and furniture by throwing everything away and buying new stuff. Ehm, OK.

atirip 13y ago

I moved many times. My golden rule is - when packing, give/throw away 50%, then by unpacking give/throw away another 50%. And try to move once in 5 years. Keeps you sane and fresh. Oh, and because of all that "training" i really can relaocate to anywhere (like another country) with just a backpack and smile on my face.

wyclif 13y ago

...except your books.

jacques_chester 13y ago
I know, intellectually, that some books simply expire. They simply aren't relevant any more. Such books can't be given to a library and can't be offloaded to a book exchange. Some even, due to changes in the world they refer to, have taken on a negative value because they can deceive a trusting reader. In good conscience these cannot be given to someone else. I console myself with these thoughts whenever I dispose of a book. Because I find the disposal of books to be thoroughly traumatic. Giving up my old law books was heart breaking. So too my teenage copies of Learn to Teach Yourself C++ in 21.75 Minutes for Dumb Idiots. It all hurt. Beds? Chairs? Clothes? Meh. I would be OK with starting from a scorched earth. But my books are sacred. I do not choose them lightly, because I know that parting will be so painful.

revorad 13y ago

Please, if you are rich, stop explaining the idea of freedom from stuff as if it’s a trick that even you have somehow mastered. The only way to own very little and be safe is to be rich. http://vruba.tumblr.com/post/45256059128/wealth-risk-and-stuff http://vruba.tumblr.com/post/45256059128/wealth-risk-and-stu...

acqq 13y ago
The article author sees it somehow insightful to sell old things in order to start buying anew (having sold the old clothes, he is glad he can buy the new ones that match). What a discovery!

easy_rider 13y ago

I think the point the author is trying to make that having to much emotional attachment to material objects, with side-effects like hoarding these items, or being upset when something happens to them can be potentially toxic for you. Sorry, I just don't have the convenience of time, money and means of transport to afford the kind of leisure the author is advocating. For one, I bought a house pretty much owning some electronics, couple guitars and amps, a full backpack, a garbage bag of cables and a couple full of clothes. I pay regular visits to my local thrift store, and they have some really nice mint stuff (or easy to refurbish) for cheap. You can also get a lot of 'sets' of items/furniture if you like your possessions to "match". People like the author sometimes basically dump their entire living room there. Also you won't feel as bad for reselling it if you end up hating the stuff, as you didn't have that big money attached to it, which mitigates a good chunk of perceived emotional value.

staunch 13y ago

It's easy to get rid of your stuff when you're moving. You're being forced to do either the chore of moving it or selling it. I haven't figured out a way to get myself to go through the pain of sorting things, throwing them away, and selling them when I'm not moving. So, things pile up. It really bothers me too. Someone could profit by helping me with this problem. Maybe a company that comes to your house and takes away everything you don't want for a base small fee, then make a profit by selling your old stuff? Maybe they take 50%?

revorad 13y ago
This startup is doing exactly that - http://usesold.com/ http://usesold.com/
- VLM 13y ago
  "800 got junk" is a 20 year old franchise operation using more or less the business model above with hundreds of franchise locations. A 150 year old non-profit with a nearly identical business model is the Salvation Army, although they only do donations and don't pay for junk other than kind of optimistic tax donation forms. They do have the model down WRT truck rolls up to house and junk disappears to be sold at a resale store, however no money officially changes hands at junk acquisition time. There are also innumerable decade or so old ebay resale operations which frankly are shoveling junk. Yes I'm sure there are some, but not many, specializing in "non-junk".
VLM 13y ago
"I haven't figured out a way to get myself to go through the pain of sorting things, throwing them away, and selling them when I'm not moving. So, things pile up...It really bothers me too." House rule, example not so much as allowed to hang up a new piece of art in the living room until the office cleanup is completed; Exactly one room is in "redecorating" mode at any given time, no more no less. Secondary house rule not so strictly enforced is the one room undergoing redecoration must be the oldest; rotation. Doesn't mean I'm obsessive about remodeling... due to life pressures etc I think the basement utility room once spent about two years in remodel status. Eventually I really wanted to replace the broken blinds in the living room, generating immense motivation to finish the utility room... "Someone could profit by helping me with this problem." I've got plenty of money. Gift economy. Everyone implementing this house rule should donate $5 to the EFF and we'll call it even.

josscrowcroft 13y ago

I accidentally left my suitcase on the Gatwick Express airport train this morning, containing practically everything I now own save for my passport, ukulele and current Macbook Air, which were all on my person... I only realised 10 minutes later when I got to the check-in desk. As I was on the shuttle back to the train, I started laughing. Everything I own? That's everything I own? I realised I didn't need any of it. A bit of a cliché, sure, and I'm a comfortably-off 25-year old single white male, apparently. When I got to the platform, I found my suitcase sitting on the train, about to trundle off into the morning. I looked at the case, a full 21kg of junk - the last 21kg - and suddenly felt weighed down, as if all these things were a constant restraint. One suitcase. There is a movement towards casting off our possessions to discover who we are; it's a tired story, as old as the hills. It points to the moon but it's not the moon. The junk we most want to lose, and most deserve to realise our freedom from, is metaphorical, it's spiritual baggage, attachments to stuff. My point here: if one suitcase of stuff is enough to be a mental burden, then when will I be happy? When there's nothing left? What about this body? Why not shed that also? You can have a monk in the Himalayas with more 'stuff' than the executive with a condo full of Ikea furniture. It doesn't matter. Depth and space are created (no, discovered) when we lose the attachments, not when we lose the stuff. Losing the stuff can be helpful and healthy, but it's not the ultimate truth. In truth, it's even a distraction for many. So I read this post and my laughter increased. All this stuff: it's all a joke! Just some thoughts as they come.

VLM 13y ago
"There is a movement towards casting off our possessions to discover who we are" That doesn't work if who you authentically are is an artisan, or at least for some arts. Some artisans/craftsman/hobbyists/makers/whatever are incredibly lucky WRT fitting the whole "throw your stuff away" meme. Your ukulele fits in your arms. Good for you. I need a forklift to move my larger metalworking machines. If I threw away all my tools, it wouldn't really help me as a tool creator/user. "Losing the stuff can be helpful and healthy, but it's not the ultimate truth." I'm convinced a lot of the push for it comes from profit seeking intermediaries. Sell you a hammer every year, so you use it once and throw it out. I occasionally still use some of my grandfathers inherited tools, which must put those people into fits.