3 ms·

"...picketing is afforded less protection than pure speech due to the physical externalities it creates" Part of the point of protesting is that it inconvenien

"...picketing is afforded less protection than pure speech due to the physical externalities it creates" Part of the point of protesting is that it inconveniences normal people and forces them to pay attention, and to likely hear the group's message in the process. I get personally irritated when some group is causing traffic delays and making a ruckus where I'm trying to go about my life, but I firmly believe they have the right to do it. Some day I might want to protest something, and I'd like to have the option.

showerst 13y ago
In DC and New York (and probably other places), the local unions will pay big groups of homeless people to get together and protest non-union construction sites with drums and noisemakers. If they get noise-complaint fines, the unions just pay them and tell them to keep going. After spending a few weeks with people with no stake in the cause wrecking my productivity with drums for a few bucks an hour because an organization didn't like the building next door, I started to appreciate the value of _some_ abridgement of picketing rights.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  That situation sets itself up for a couple of pretty obvious countermeasures: 1. Pay the protesters to go away. It's a free market, after all. 2. Recruit your own volunteers to go to where the union is recruiting, and get paid to protest. 3. Or, if you want to support the union, file a suit against the target of the protests for creating an environmental nuisance.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    So "protection money", counter-assholery, or lawyers to file a nuisance suit against someone for doing a perfectly legal construction job? What a wonderful world that must be...
    - dredmorbius 13y ago
      I'm looking at ways of hacking the system. And doing so in a way that might balance interests one way or the other. Sometimes life is just a game.
GabrielF00 13y ago
The Supreme Court is going to rule on a Massachusetts law that forces protestors at abortion clinics to stand 35 feet from the building. The problem isn't just the noise and the traffic delays, there are also issues of physical harassment and intimidation. I think its a pretty reasonable law - protestors are perfectly visible at that distance and passers-by can have a certain amount of personal space.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Why not just leave things as they are, but arrest any protestors who harass or intimidate? Those are already illegal, after all.
JumpCrisscross 13y ago
Causing traffic delays and creating a ruckus is not a part of one's First Amendment rights. Nor should it be - that gives the minority an effective veto on the lives and productive capacities of random people.
- JimmyFord 13y ago
  The amount of disruption a peaceful demonstration can cause is proportional to the number of participants. As it should be.

showerst 13y ago

In DC and New York (and probably other places), the local unions will pay big groups of homeless people to get together and protest non-union construction sites with drums and noisemakers. If they get noise-complaint fines, the unions just pay them and tell them to keep going. After spending a few weeks with people with no stake in the cause wrecking my productivity with drums for a few bucks an hour because an organization didn't like the building next door, I started to appreciate the value of _some_ abridgement of picketing rights.

dredmorbius 13y ago
That situation sets itself up for a couple of pretty obvious countermeasures: 1. Pay the protesters to go away. It's a free market, after all. 2. Recruit your own volunteers to go to where the union is recruiting, and get paid to protest. 3. Or, if you want to support the union, file a suit against the target of the protests for creating an environmental nuisance.
- mpyne 13y ago
  So "protection money", counter-assholery, or lawyers to file a nuisance suit against someone for doing a perfectly legal construction job? What a wonderful world that must be...
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    I'm looking at ways of hacking the system. And doing so in a way that might balance interests one way or the other. Sometimes life is just a game.

GabrielF00 13y ago

The Supreme Court is going to rule on a Massachusetts law that forces protestors at abortion clinics to stand 35 feet from the building. The problem isn't just the noise and the traffic delays, there are also issues of physical harassment and intimidation. I think its a pretty reasonable law - protestors are perfectly visible at that distance and passers-by can have a certain amount of personal space.

mikeash 13y ago
Why not just leave things as they are, but arrest any protestors who harass or intimidate? Those are already illegal, after all.

JumpCrisscross 13y ago

Causing traffic delays and creating a ruckus is not a part of one's First Amendment rights. Nor should it be - that gives the minority an effective veto on the lives and productive capacities of random people.

JimmyFord 13y ago
The amount of disruption a peaceful demonstration can cause is proportional to the number of participants. As it should be.