14 ms·

I love Sublime Text. For a year or two I tried and tried to get behind vim, to no avail. I thought there must be something wrong with me, perhaps I'm not as sma

by pvnick 13y ago

I love Sublime Text. For a year or two I tried and tried to get behind vim, to no avail. I thought there must be something wrong with me, perhaps I'm not as smart as those other developers who sit there staring at several adjacent vim windows hitting cryptic key sequences as if the essence of vim were an extension of their mind (maybe it is?). I couldn't do it. Then I made the realization that the editor you use has no bearing on your skill as a developer (well, as long as you're not using Notepad). I picked up Sublime, and my productivity shot up by an order of magnitude. It's fun, supports every single language I've written in, and has a plugin out there for my favorite color scheme of all time, Tomorrow Night (previously it was Solarized Dark). With sublime I can code circles around my former vim-imprisoned self any day.

wicknicks 13y ago
Same here. My experience was with Emacs though. I learnt some of the key binding, but installing plugins for almost every need I had (syntax highlighting, debugging, color scheme) just wasn't cutting it. Sublime has very intuitive key bindings, and its blazing fast. Definitely the best editor out there. I still use emacs to edit files through the console, but the majority of my daily editing happens through ST.
- psibi 13y ago
  Emacs 24 has ELPA with it. Makes installing plugins a trivial task.
markbao 13y ago
As a vim user, I feel as if the essence of vim is an extension of my mind. Much like riding a bicycle, I instinctively think "select this line and the four lines below it and copy it" as "V4jy" with little cognitive thought. Kind of cool from a cognitive science standpoint.
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  Do you think it's possible some people just aren't wired like this? Or am I just not trying hard enough? I've tried to pick up Vim several times and never made it very far. But at least I know "i" and ":wq" now :)
  - magicarp 13y ago
    I was in your position for about a year until bit the bullet and uninstalled Sublime Text from my machine forced myself to use vim exclusively. It was an arduous and painful 2 weeks, but it got better and paid off in the long run.
    - tumblen 13y ago
      Why do you need to uninstall? I use Sumblime text in Vintage (VIM) mode and it's amazing!
      - DigitalJack 13y ago
        I agree. Vintage mode is among the best emulations/mappings of vim that I have used.
      - steinnes 13y ago
        Same here. I'm using Sublime now for larger tasks, as I like the plugins and code completion, but for smaller, more isolated things and remote work vim is still, and will be, my choice.
  - Legion 13y ago
    > Do you think it's possible some people just aren't wired like this? Absolutely. Well, maybe I wouldn't call it "wired", but no one tool is right for everyone, and no one should feel bad or wrong for using something different. I am a Vim lover. You can pry Vim from my cold, dead fingers. But of course it's not for everyone, for the same reason that we don't all use just one programming language or one web framework.
  - sixothree 13y ago
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- Groxx 13y ago
  I've been in and out of vim, but never reached the 'extension' point. Probably due to lack of necessity, and Java work has pushed me further away :/ But mind if I ask why you select instead of e.g. "5yy"? Used to thinking visually, or does it do something different with buffers, or...?
- Osiris 13y ago
  My number one issue with VIM is the need to always count everything: number of lines, number of words, etc. That alone makes the short cuts take a lot longer because generally I'm thinking "I want to cut this function" or "I want to cut down to this line right here". I've never in my life instinctively thought, "I need to cut this line plus four more!". I end up using visual mode a lot in VIM because it's often faster (or easier) than stopping to count how many times I need to repeat the operation.
  - socksy 13y ago
    Try using text objects: http://blog.carbonfive.com/2011/10/17/vim-text-objects-the-definitive-guide/ http://blog.carbonfive.com/2011/10/17/vim-text-objects-the-d...
    - jonahx 13y ago
      Wish I could upvote this more. Thanks for sharing!
groovy2shoes 13y ago
I know some excellent developers who write all their code in Notepad. Hell, I wrote a fairly large Java application in Notepad when I was in uni. It wasn't that bad.
- frou_dh 13y ago
  You at least want to maintain indentation for new lines.
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
I've used Vim for many years and still found Sublime superior after trying it. While I still prefer Vim for quick edits and ssh, Sublime ended being much more productive for coding.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rogerbinns 13y ago
Your editor does have a bearing on your skill as a developer. When I interview candidates, the question I ask is "what is your favourite editor?" I don't actually care (much) what the answer is, but I do care that the developer periodically examines the tools they use a lot, and see if they can improve their productivity. Editors do make a difference in your productivity - that is why people have favourites and why they have flamewars. That productivity matters.
- evjan 13y ago
  "Editors do make a difference in your productivity - that is why people have favourites and why they have flamewars. That productivity matters." How do these people know it makes a difference? Do they measure their productivity? Is there any scientific research on this?
  - camperman 13y ago
    You don't need scientific research to know that a good extensible, programmable editor that can become an extension of your mind and hands is going to make you more productive than Notepad. It's like playing a musical instrument. The finger movements and thought processes move into the background over time as you master them with proper practice and you start operating at a higher level. A world-class musician isn't thinking about which notes to play when and where to put their fingers but rather how to put more emotion into a performance. Similarly, a top flight programmer who has mastered emacs or vim or Sublime Text won't be operating at a conscious level but will be controlling the environment in front of them at a far higher level, especially if the conceptual model of the text buffer is the same no matter what they're doing with it. An extreme comparison would be to sit two people of the same ability down in front of the Linux kernel source tree, one armed with emacs, cscope, syntax highlighting, org-mode and cc-mode and the other with nano and see who is faster at some non-trivial task.
    - Leepic 13y ago
      You don't need scientific research to know that a good extensible, programmable editor that can become an extension of your mind and hands is going to make you more productive than Notepad. Sure you don't. You can feel the difference. The problem occurs when people treat their editors as an extension of themselves and can't tell the difference between "not liking you" and "not liking your editor", eventually getting defensive. That's a "cognitive level" I don't want to get myself into.
nilkn 13y ago
I think everyone should find a workflow that works for them, and I've found that what works for me is working almost exclusively from a terminal. Combining vim and tmux with the basix Unix command line and a few other tools like ack, tig, etc., gives me an environment that I can't really replicate with desktop applications, at least not on OS X, which lacks a true tiling window manager (i.e., one which, unlike slate, spectacle, etc., tiles the windows for you automatically). I've considered a switch to Linux for xmonad, but I still love OS X overall and am more than happy with my terminal workflow. I work with two 27-inch monitors, and I like to dedicate one entire monitor to a single full-screen terminal with tmux as the window manager. Admittedly, this has its downsides. For instance, I feel hopeless trying to do serious coding on Windows.
- tbe 13y ago
  Have not tried itmyself, but you could check out osxmonad :)
  - nilkn 13y ago
    I believe I did try it once but couldn't get it to compile or something. I'm sure it was my fault, but I guess I just don't desire it badly enough over a terminal multiplexer to expend the effort.
ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
I too LOVE sublime text (especially the mini document map, God I love that thing), I just wish there was an addon that turned a tab into a Rich Text Document editor (italic, bold, bullet points, etc...) I tend to write very long posts for my blog and I hate the Wordpress editor.
- Numberwang 13y ago
  You could use a markdown language. F.ex. http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax
- ansgri 13y ago
  What use is of the mini-map? Navigation is better done by search, and I cannot imagine it could be more than a cute waste of screen space.
  - ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
    Oh God you're such a programmer. I'm a designer dude. We're visual people. We don't do terminals, we don't do "sudo apt get". We do clicking, UI, colors, things like that. It's just the way we are. I remember what code looks like (color and shape wise) and where on the page it is, it's not in my head like it is in yours.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by pvnick 13y ago

wicknicks 13y ago

Same here. My experience was with Emacs though. I learnt some of the key binding, but installing plugins for almost every need I had (syntax highlighting, debugging, color scheme) just wasn't cutting it. Sublime has very intuitive key bindings, and its blazing fast. Definitely the best editor out there. I still use emacs to edit files through the console, but the majority of my daily editing happens through ST.

psibi 13y ago
Emacs 24 has ELPA with it. Makes installing plugins a trivial task.

markbao 13y ago

As a vim user, I feel as if the essence of vim is an extension of my mind. Much like riding a bicycle, I instinctively think "select this line and the four lines below it and copy it" as "V4jy" with little cognitive thought. Kind of cool from a cognitive science standpoint.

tlrobinson 13y ago
Do you think it's possible some people just aren't wired like this? Or am I just not trying hard enough? I've tried to pick up Vim several times and never made it very far. But at least I know "i" and ":wq" now :)
- magicarp 13y ago
  I was in your position for about a year until bit the bullet and uninstalled Sublime Text from my machine forced myself to use vim exclusively. It was an arduous and painful 2 weeks, but it got better and paid off in the long run.
  - tumblen 13y ago
    Why do you need to uninstall? I use Sumblime text in Vintage (VIM) mode and it's amazing!
    - DigitalJack 13y ago
      I agree. Vintage mode is among the best emulations/mappings of vim that I have used.
    - steinnes 13y ago
      Same here. I'm using Sublime now for larger tasks, as I like the plugins and code completion, but for smaller, more isolated things and remote work vim is still, and will be, my choice.
- Legion 13y ago
  > Do you think it's possible some people just aren't wired like this? Absolutely. Well, maybe I wouldn't call it "wired", but no one tool is right for everyone, and no one should feel bad or wrong for using something different. I am a Vim lover. You can pry Vim from my cold, dead fingers. But of course it's not for everyone, for the same reason that we don't all use just one programming language or one web framework.
- sixothree 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Groxx 13y ago
I've been in and out of vim, but never reached the 'extension' point. Probably due to lack of necessity, and Java work has pushed me further away :/ But mind if I ask why you select instead of e.g. "5yy"? Used to thinking visually, or does it do something different with buffers, or...?
Osiris 13y ago
My number one issue with VIM is the need to always count everything: number of lines, number of words, etc. That alone makes the short cuts take a lot longer because generally I'm thinking "I want to cut this function" or "I want to cut down to this line right here". I've never in my life instinctively thought, "I need to cut this line plus four more!". I end up using visual mode a lot in VIM because it's often faster (or easier) than stopping to count how many times I need to repeat the operation.
- socksy 13y ago
  Try using text objects: http://blog.carbonfive.com/2011/10/17/vim-text-objects-the-definitive-guide/ http://blog.carbonfive.com/2011/10/17/vim-text-objects-the-d...
  - jonahx 13y ago
    Wish I could upvote this more. Thanks for sharing!

groovy2shoes 13y ago

I know some excellent developers who write all their code in Notepad. Hell, I wrote a fairly large Java application in Notepad when I was in uni. It wasn't that bad.

frou_dh 13y ago
You at least want to maintain indentation for new lines.

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago

I've used Vim for many years and still found Sublime superior after trying it. While I still prefer Vim for quick edits and ssh, Sublime ended being much more productive for coding.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rogerbinns 13y ago

Your editor does have a bearing on your skill as a developer. When I interview candidates, the question I ask is "what is your favourite editor?" I don't actually care (much) what the answer is, but I do care that the developer periodically examines the tools they use a lot, and see if they can improve their productivity. Editors do make a difference in your productivity - that is why people have favourites and why they have flamewars. That productivity matters.

evjan 13y ago
"Editors do make a difference in your productivity - that is why people have favourites and why they have flamewars. That productivity matters." How do these people know it makes a difference? Do they measure their productivity? Is there any scientific research on this?
- camperman 13y ago
  You don't need scientific research to know that a good extensible, programmable editor that can become an extension of your mind and hands is going to make you more productive than Notepad. It's like playing a musical instrument. The finger movements and thought processes move into the background over time as you master them with proper practice and you start operating at a higher level. A world-class musician isn't thinking about which notes to play when and where to put their fingers but rather how to put more emotion into a performance. Similarly, a top flight programmer who has mastered emacs or vim or Sublime Text won't be operating at a conscious level but will be controlling the environment in front of them at a far higher level, especially if the conceptual model of the text buffer is the same no matter what they're doing with it. An extreme comparison would be to sit two people of the same ability down in front of the Linux kernel source tree, one armed with emacs, cscope, syntax highlighting, org-mode and cc-mode and the other with nano and see who is faster at some non-trivial task.
  - Leepic 13y ago
    You don't need scientific research to know that a good extensible, programmable editor that can become an extension of your mind and hands is going to make you more productive than Notepad. Sure you don't. You can feel the difference. The problem occurs when people treat their editors as an extension of themselves and can't tell the difference between "not liking you" and "not liking your editor", eventually getting defensive. That's a "cognitive level" I don't want to get myself into.

nilkn 13y ago

I think everyone should find a workflow that works for them, and I've found that what works for me is working almost exclusively from a terminal. Combining vim and tmux with the basix Unix command line and a few other tools like ack, tig, etc., gives me an environment that I can't really replicate with desktop applications, at least not on OS X, which lacks a true tiling window manager (i.e., one which, unlike slate, spectacle, etc., tiles the windows for you automatically). I've considered a switch to Linux for xmonad, but I still love OS X overall and am more than happy with my terminal workflow. I work with two 27-inch monitors, and I like to dedicate one entire monitor to a single full-screen terminal with tmux as the window manager. Admittedly, this has its downsides. For instance, I feel hopeless trying to do serious coding on Windows.

tbe 13y ago
Have not tried itmyself, but you could check out osxmonad :)
- nilkn 13y ago
  I believe I did try it once but couldn't get it to compile or something. I'm sure it was my fault, but I guess I just don't desire it badly enough over a terminal multiplexer to expend the effort.

ChrisNorstrom 13y ago

I too LOVE sublime text (especially the mini document map, God I love that thing), I just wish there was an addon that turned a tab into a Rich Text Document editor (italic, bold, bullet points, etc...) I tend to write very long posts for my blog and I hate the Wordpress editor.

Numberwang 13y ago
You could use a markdown language. F.ex. http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax
ansgri 13y ago
What use is of the mini-map? Navigation is better done by search, and I cannot imagine it could be more than a cute waste of screen space.
- ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
  Oh God you're such a programmer. I'm a designer dude. We're visual people. We don't do terminals, we don't do "sudo apt get". We do clicking, UI, colors, things like that. It's just the way we are. I remember what code looks like (color and shape wise) and where on the page it is, it's not in my head like it is in yours.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]