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I'm with you there. OP's experience is startlingly similar to mine. I hated the chanting, the obvious eastern cultural bias (an overzealous assistant told me

I'm with you there. OP's experience is startlingly similar to mine. I hated the chanting, the obvious eastern cultural bias (an overzealous assistant told me not to point my feet at the TV while GoenkaHeadroom was talking), the vague conservative morality, the claims to nonsectarianness while still referencing reincarnation, etc. But the technique really works, and the gestalt of their teaching method does work, and I was, also, literally a different person than when I went in. I'll say this for the chanting: by the time it starts up at about minute 55, it is the sweetest sound you can possibly imagine.

hosh 13y ago
- There are good reasons for the feet thing, but ultimately ... someone who has great equinmaity won't be bothered much by your feet pointing at him, or not pointing at him, your zealous worship, your respect, your lack of respect, or your disrespect. So someone who gets upset over that, well, if the teacher remains equanimous, that means the one who is thrashing is the student. - The overzealous assistant has his own thing going on, and so do you. That's actually an AWESOME interaction to have. How do you feel about it? Where is coming from your body? Good fodder for vipassana. - The Trappist monks has the same practiced with a different set of cultural bias. Something to investigate. - You can look up Daniel Ingram's book, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha. It's a little advanced, but the coolest thing about his book is that the framework he talks about is flexible enough that you can see the underlying practice regardless of cultural biases. - When you reach a tipping point of realization, you find yourself not at all bothered by these cultural biases or little difference. The essential practice is still the same. - The conservative morality and reincarnation falls out of the insights people have doing these practices. Ingram has a great teaching, that morality is putting the realization you received on the cushion in every day life. It might manifest as conservative, it might not. The important thing is that *you* are living the realizations you received through your practice. The labels, conservative or otherwise, eventually fall away. - Likewise, it is quite all right for you not to believe in reincarnation. You do this long enough, you start finding things about incarnation cycles. Until you've had those experiences, that one is a tough one to swallow for most people. And why should they accept it when they have not directly realized it?
- kemiller 13y ago
  On some level I realize all of this. And one thing I did like is that it's really the least coercive of any sort of spiritual event I've ever tried. I've explored other facets of buddhism, and I'm always put off by bowing, images of the Buddha, incense, etc. and Goenka uses none of that stuff. And even the strictness, the difficulty is useful in the context of the retreat. So I'm in my own place along the path.
  - hosh 13y ago
    Cool! I'm allergic to coercion too. I did discover to my delight ... and horror ... that no one in the world can force you to be mindful ;-)
- kemiller 13y ago
  I'm curious what the "good reasons" for the foot thing are that aren't culturally embedded. If it were a live guru up there, I can kind of see it, but not the TV.
  - gverri 13y ago
    There no 'good reason'. It's just a cultural bias.

hosh 13y ago

- There are good reasons for the feet thing, but ultimately ... someone who has great equinmaity won't be bothered much by your feet pointing at him, or not pointing at him, your zealous worship, your respect, your lack of respect, or your disrespect. So someone who gets upset over that, well, if the teacher remains equanimous, that means the one who is thrashing is the student. - The overzealous assistant has his own thing going on, and so do you. That's actually an AWESOME interaction to have. How do you feel about it? Where is coming from your body? Good fodder for vipassana. - The Trappist monks has the same practiced with a different set of cultural bias. Something to investigate. - You can look up Daniel Ingram's book, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha. It's a little advanced, but the coolest thing about his book is that the framework he talks about is flexible enough that you can see the underlying practice regardless of cultural biases. - When you reach a tipping point of realization, you find yourself not at all bothered by these cultural biases or little difference. The essential practice is still the same. - The conservative morality and reincarnation falls out of the insights people have doing these practices. Ingram has a great teaching, that morality is putting the realization you received on the cushion in every day life. It might manifest as conservative, it might not. The important thing is that *you* are living the realizations you received through your practice. The labels, conservative or otherwise, eventually fall away. - Likewise, it is quite all right for you not to believe in reincarnation. You do this long enough, you start finding things about incarnation cycles. Until you've had those experiences, that one is a tough one to swallow for most people. And why should they accept it when they have not directly realized it?

kemiller 13y ago
On some level I realize all of this. And one thing I did like is that it's really the least coercive of any sort of spiritual event I've ever tried. I've explored other facets of buddhism, and I'm always put off by bowing, images of the Buddha, incense, etc. and Goenka uses none of that stuff. And even the strictness, the difficulty is useful in the context of the retreat. So I'm in my own place along the path.
- hosh 13y ago
  Cool! I'm allergic to coercion too. I did discover to my delight ... and horror ... that no one in the world can force you to be mindful ;-)
kemiller 13y ago
I'm curious what the "good reasons" for the foot thing are that aren't culturally embedded. If it were a live guru up there, I can kind of see it, but not the TV.
- gverri 13y ago
  There no 'good reason'. It's just a cultural bias.