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The Government does not want him for being treasonous. The Government wants him for espionage.

by sigzero 13y ago

Zikes 13y ago
If espionage is acquiring information to give to the enemy, and Snowden is wanted for giving information to the American people, does that mean that the Government thinks that the American people are the enemy?
- Kylekramer 13y ago
  I know this is a Ron Paul line, but the logic doesn't clearly follow. Snowden isn't "wanted for giving information to the American people". He didn't only release information to American citizens. Of course, it is impossible to leak classified information publicly and not leak it to the "enemy", but this particular platitude bugs me. There are many reasons to be upset with the government right now, but the charges against Snowden don't imply the government thinks citizens are the enemy.
  - Spooky23 13y ago
    The definition of "enemy" has moved beyond state affiliation. It's not "the Russians are coming". We're worried about extremists of various ilks these days. So a citizen can be an enemy in the current line of reasoning. Let's be real here -- nobody who follows these issues was surprised by what Snowden said or found it implausible. Our potential nation-state enemies, who are not completely inept, or operate assuming that the NSA had the capabilities described by Snowden. It's publically known that the US compromised Soviet undersea cables almost 40 years ago -- I'm sure Chinese Intelligence didn't assume that that capability still existed today. Anyone who has any business or knows anything about doing business in China knows about the Great Firewall and knows that a State entity has the ability to broadly and deeply monitor network activity.
- revscat 13y ago
  The simple answer to the question is "yes". The follow-up question is "why"? The evidence seems to be pointing towards the conclusion that there is such vast institutional corruption in place that they are protecting themselves, through intelligence gathering and militarized police forces, from any threat posed from the general population. Intelligence gathering allows them to keep tabs on any movements which threaten or expose them, e.g. Occupy, WikiLeaks, Snowden. They can then coordinate with law enforcement to disable and neutralize them, and the media is used to discredit them.
  - rdudekul 13y ago
    Interesting answer, potentially suggesting the people of the US are the enemy of the US government, simply because government wants to protect some corrupt corporations.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  What a gloriously ignorant or deliberately disingenuous statement. Snowden is wanted for stealing state secrets. That = espionage. If a Chinese agent got caught for doing the same thing he'd be charged with espionage. Espionage has everything to do with the getting not the distributing. If you catch the person leaving the building, meaning the information was never shared at all, you can't go "Oh rats, can't charge him with espionage!" But that doesn't help when we want to do clever word smithing like the above. For the record treason is a judgement on whether you used the information you stole (espionage) to harm your country. It's actually very telling that he's not charged with treason. The government is saying (today) they don't believe he did set out to hurt his country by simply charging him with stealing state secrets and chosing not to charge him for trying to damage his country with his actions after stealing them.
deleted 13y ago
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- tootie 13y ago
  The Rosenberg's were convicted of giving nuclear secrets to the Soviets. That is a clearcut case of aiding and abetting our nation's enemies. Scooter Libby was sentenced to 30 months for outing a covert agent (sentence commuted by Bush). John Kiriakou similarly received a 30 month sentence for leaking classified info as well as outing a covert agent. Snowden leaked a load of classified data, but did so to journalists (as with Libby and Kiriakou) and did not out any agents or put any Americans in harms way. It seems likely that he would not come close to a capital case and would probably receive less than the 30 months imposed on leakers who outed agents.
  - 324256a 13y ago
    No, it was not" clear cut case" - the Soviet Union was never actually a US 'enemy'. Therefore, they could not be tried for treason. But it was espionage indeed.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

The Government does not want him for being treasonous. The Government wants him for espionage.

by sigzero 13y ago

The Government does not want him for being treasonous. The Government wants him for espionage.

Zikes 13y ago

If espionage is acquiring information to give to the enemy, and Snowden is wanted for giving information to the American people, does that mean that the Government thinks that the American people are the enemy?

Kylekramer 13y ago
I know this is a Ron Paul line, but the logic doesn't clearly follow. Snowden isn't "wanted for giving information to the American people". He didn't only release information to American citizens. Of course, it is impossible to leak classified information publicly and not leak it to the "enemy", but this particular platitude bugs me. There are many reasons to be upset with the government right now, but the charges against Snowden don't imply the government thinks citizens are the enemy.
- Spooky23 13y ago
  The definition of "enemy" has moved beyond state affiliation. It's not "the Russians are coming". We're worried about extremists of various ilks these days. So a citizen can be an enemy in the current line of reasoning. Let's be real here -- nobody who follows these issues was surprised by what Snowden said or found it implausible. Our potential nation-state enemies, who are not completely inept, or operate assuming that the NSA had the capabilities described by Snowden. It's publically known that the US compromised Soviet undersea cables almost 40 years ago -- I'm sure Chinese Intelligence didn't assume that that capability still existed today. Anyone who has any business or knows anything about doing business in China knows about the Great Firewall and knows that a State entity has the ability to broadly and deeply monitor network activity.
revscat 13y ago
The simple answer to the question is "yes". The follow-up question is "why"? The evidence seems to be pointing towards the conclusion that there is such vast institutional corruption in place that they are protecting themselves, through intelligence gathering and militarized police forces, from any threat posed from the general population. Intelligence gathering allows them to keep tabs on any movements which threaten or expose them, e.g. Occupy, WikiLeaks, Snowden. They can then coordinate with law enforcement to disable and neutralize them, and the media is used to discredit them.
- rdudekul 13y ago
  Interesting answer, potentially suggesting the people of the US are the enemy of the US government, simply because government wants to protect some corrupt corporations.
jusben1369 13y ago
What a gloriously ignorant or deliberately disingenuous statement. Snowden is wanted for stealing state secrets. That = espionage. If a Chinese agent got caught for doing the same thing he'd be charged with espionage. Espionage has everything to do with the getting not the distributing. If you catch the person leaving the building, meaning the information was never shared at all, you can't go "Oh rats, can't charge him with espionage!" But that doesn't help when we want to do clever word smithing like the above. For the record treason is a judgement on whether you used the information you stole (espionage) to harm your country. It's actually very telling that he's not charged with treason. The government is saying (today) they don't believe he did set out to hurt his country by simply charging him with stealing state secrets and chosing not to charge him for trying to damage his country with his actions after stealing them.

deleted 13y ago

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tootie 13y ago
The Rosenberg's were convicted of giving nuclear secrets to the Soviets. That is a clearcut case of aiding and abetting our nation's enemies. Scooter Libby was sentenced to 30 months for outing a covert agent (sentence commuted by Bush). John Kiriakou similarly received a 30 month sentence for leaking classified info as well as outing a covert agent. Snowden leaked a load of classified data, but did so to journalists (as with Libby and Kiriakou) and did not out any agents or put any Americans in harms way. It seems likely that he would not come close to a capital case and would probably receive less than the 30 months imposed on leakers who outed agents.
- 324256a 13y ago
  No, it was not" clear cut case" - the Soviet Union was never actually a US 'enemy'. Therefore, they could not be tried for treason. But it was espionage indeed.

deleted 13y ago

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