4 ms·

The biggest bug for me is that it's $70 - Although I'm a professional developer, I'm still fairly underpaid (I don't live in London, San Fran, NY, etc.) and thu

The biggest bug for me is that it's $70 - Although I'm a professional developer, I'm still fairly underpaid (I don't live in London, San Fran, NY, etc.) and thus it's out of my price range when I can barely afford travel, rent and food.

Kurtz79 13y ago
I use vim and reasonably happy with it, but honestly 70$ is little more than a new console game, or a dinner for two in a decent restaurant... we are not really talking about a license for Photoshop or professional CAD software. If you are a professional developer living in a reasonably modern country and cannot afford 70$ for what is supposed to be to be your primary tool, then you are not underpaid, you are being scammed. That the features it offers are not worth 70$ compared to free editors is another matter entirely, and a purely personal matter.
- robinduckett 13y ago
  I bought a license for TM years ago, and currently use TM2. This would be a "nice to have", rather than a must have. I should probably save up and take my girlfriend out soon. Thanks for reminding me.
Raphmedia 13y ago
Can't the company you work for buy you a license?
- robinduckett 13y ago
  Why should they?
  - timc3 13y ago
    To give you the tools to do your job? I think perhaps you should start looking for a position elsewhere. Bristol does have other employment opportunities.
    - robinduckett 13y ago
      I meant in the way of how would this provenly improve my productivity to justify the expense
  - garethadams 13y ago
    Because they have a vested interest in improving your productivity?
    - robinduckett 13y ago
      I meant in the way of how would this provenly improve my productivity to justify the expense
noahc 13y ago
Being underpaid isn't a function of being in a particular region (assuming your in America). Middle America Jr. Devs with little/no programming experience are getting started around $70K.
- robinduckett 13y ago
  I'm in the UK, I've been working for about seven years, I'm on about that in Bristol (and have to commute for an hour to get here.) I must just not be as good as a Junior in middle america.
  - Silhouette 13y ago
    Software developers in the US tend to be paid much more than anywhere else in the world, and often don't realise this. In the UK, a salaried senior software developer would typically make £45-60K before tax (currently around $70-90K US). Working for someone else as an employee, you'd expect to reach that level after maybe 5-8 years, but then stick there for the rest of your career. Obviously the rates can be higher with special circumstances and they are somewhat higher if you're working in London, but anything close to what is normal in the US would be a rare exception in the UK (and most other places outside the US).
    - laurencerowe 13y ago
      There has been a 25% fall in the GBPUSD exchange rate over the past few years which needs to be factored in when comparing salaries. The Bay Area can make London seem an affordable place to live. But that being said, there is still a significant difference in wages for salaried positions. Contracting rates seems much more similar. And the tax treatment for contractors in the UK is so favourable as to make it more worthwhile than all but the very highest salaried developer roles in the City.
      - Silhouette 13y ago
        And the tax treatment for contractors in the UK is so favourable as to make it more worthwhile than all but the very highest salaried developer roles in the City. IME as someone who does freelance work in the UK, the tax treatment usually isn't a big win. There are some tax advantages, but in practice they are usually balanced or significantly outweighed by the extra overheads of running a business (accounting, legal, insurance, equipment purchases, etc.), the loss of typical employee benefits (paid time off, pension contributions, etc.), and the risk of downtime when you don't have work. If these kinds of downsides don't apply to you, then you're likely to be treated as a disguised employee and the IR35 rules will negate the tax advantages as well. I find the big difference in moving to contract/freelance work in the UK is that you change the frame of reference from employer-employee negotiations and their associated expectations to business-business negotiations and their very different associated expectations. If you're good, and therefore generate a lot of obvious value to clients, the latter removes the glass ceiling. I suspect not coincidentally, as you mentioned, rates for this kind of work seem to be much more consistent among different countries.
Adirael 13y ago
Still, I don't think it's that much money. I bought TextMate, then moved to phpStorm (this one was almost 100€, they had a sale not too long ago) and I also got Coda 2. I buy a lot of software, if a tool is useful it's going to pay for itself in no time. I'm in Spain.
anu_gupta 13y ago
Not sure what your point is, apart from not being able to afford it. Then again, not sure why, if you're really employed as a developer, your company isn't paying for your development tools. DId you have to buy your own laptop?

Kurtz79 13y ago

I use vim and reasonably happy with it, but honestly 70$ is little more than a new console game, or a dinner for two in a decent restaurant... we are not really talking about a license for Photoshop or professional CAD software. If you are a professional developer living in a reasonably modern country and cannot afford 70$ for what is supposed to be to be your primary tool, then you are not underpaid, you are being scammed. That the features it offers are not worth 70$ compared to free editors is another matter entirely, and a purely personal matter.

robinduckett 13y ago
I bought a license for TM years ago, and currently use TM2. This would be a "nice to have", rather than a must have. I should probably save up and take my girlfriend out soon. Thanks for reminding me.

Raphmedia 13y ago

Can't the company you work for buy you a license?

robinduckett 13y ago
Why should they?
- timc3 13y ago
  To give you the tools to do your job? I think perhaps you should start looking for a position elsewhere. Bristol does have other employment opportunities.
  - robinduckett 13y ago
    I meant in the way of how would this provenly improve my productivity to justify the expense
- garethadams 13y ago
  Because they have a vested interest in improving your productivity?
  - robinduckett 13y ago
    I meant in the way of how would this provenly improve my productivity to justify the expense

noahc 13y ago

Being underpaid isn't a function of being in a particular region (assuming your in America). Middle America Jr. Devs with little/no programming experience are getting started around $70K.

robinduckett 13y ago
I'm in the UK, I've been working for about seven years, I'm on about that in Bristol (and have to commute for an hour to get here.) I must just not be as good as a Junior in middle america.
- Silhouette 13y ago
  Software developers in the US tend to be paid much more than anywhere else in the world, and often don't realise this. In the UK, a salaried senior software developer would typically make £45-60K before tax (currently around $70-90K US). Working for someone else as an employee, you'd expect to reach that level after maybe 5-8 years, but then stick there for the rest of your career. Obviously the rates can be higher with special circumstances and they are somewhat higher if you're working in London, but anything close to what is normal in the US would be a rare exception in the UK (and most other places outside the US).
  - laurencerowe 13y ago
    There has been a 25% fall in the GBPUSD exchange rate over the past few years which needs to be factored in when comparing salaries. The Bay Area can make London seem an affordable place to live. But that being said, there is still a significant difference in wages for salaried positions. Contracting rates seems much more similar. And the tax treatment for contractors in the UK is so favourable as to make it more worthwhile than all but the very highest salaried developer roles in the City.
    - Silhouette 13y ago
      And the tax treatment for contractors in the UK is so favourable as to make it more worthwhile than all but the very highest salaried developer roles in the City. IME as someone who does freelance work in the UK, the tax treatment usually isn't a big win. There are some tax advantages, but in practice they are usually balanced or significantly outweighed by the extra overheads of running a business (accounting, legal, insurance, equipment purchases, etc.), the loss of typical employee benefits (paid time off, pension contributions, etc.), and the risk of downtime when you don't have work. If these kinds of downsides don't apply to you, then you're likely to be treated as a disguised employee and the IR35 rules will negate the tax advantages as well. I find the big difference in moving to contract/freelance work in the UK is that you change the frame of reference from employer-employee negotiations and their associated expectations to business-business negotiations and their very different associated expectations. If you're good, and therefore generate a lot of obvious value to clients, the latter removes the glass ceiling. I suspect not coincidentally, as you mentioned, rates for this kind of work seem to be much more consistent among different countries.

Adirael 13y ago

Still, I don't think it's that much money. I bought TextMate, then moved to phpStorm (this one was almost 100€, they had a sale not too long ago) and I also got Coda 2. I buy a lot of software, if a tool is useful it's going to pay for itself in no time. I'm in Spain.

anu_gupta 13y ago

Not sure what your point is, apart from not being able to afford it. Then again, not sure why, if you're really employed as a developer, your company isn't paying for your development tools. DId you have to buy your own laptop?