5 ms·

Pst. Don't exclude people without college degrees. They're often far more resourceful, in my experience, and there's little that college gives you as a develope

Pst. Don't exclude people without college degrees. They're often far more resourceful, in my experience, and there's little that college gives you as a developer. Hire the person, not the school.

jaxn 17y ago
Yeah, I don't have a college degree.
- jaxn 17y ago
  Why would this get down voted?
  - abstractbill 17y ago
    Probably because it doesn't really add anything to the discussion.
  - rjett 17y ago
    You're not adding anything to the conversation. If you had said, "Yea I don't have a college degree and I've taught myself six different programming languages and I'm working on x, y and z right now," that would have been a (marginally) better response to the parent than what you wrote.
    - jaxn 17y ago
      See, I think there is value in self-identification esp since not having a college degree makes you somewhat of a pariah in some circles. Granted, it would have been better to provide some prove as to why it is notable that I personally do not have a college degree, but being here at HN counts for something. But yeah, I have probably taught myself 6 programming languages (PHP, Ruby, Java, Python, Javascript, Perl, and some software specific programming tools like Lawson Process Flow, TSQL, etc). I have over 10 years of tech / business experience, own 2 retail clothing stores, took statzen.com to TechCrunch50 DemoPit last year, am about to launch http://gpsaAssassins.com http://gpsaAssassins.com, yada yada. I was going to go back and finish my BS, but something better keeps coming along. Now I am at a point where it doesn't seem worth it. So I am thinking I may one day clep out of a much of stuff and go get my MBA. Of course, by the time I have the time to go back to school the MBA probably won't seem worth it either. So, hopefully that adds a little more to the conversation. (Better late than never)
- reconbot 17y ago
  Me neither and there are a few instances where I regret it, but mostly during the time I "should" have been in school I was learning how to run my own company, live and provide for myself, taxes, health care and everything else. I have college educated friends who have gone back to working retail with no savings account because they don't know better. (I yell at them and teach them things from time to time, least I can do when I see friends making mistakes.) I think in the long run it wont matter what level of education I've "completed", I'm always going to be learning and I'm always going to try to be good at what I do. Taking classes might help me one day, you never know.
aaadddeeeaaa 17y ago
... great to see you excluding people WITH college degrees.
falien 17y ago
If you're a person who doesn't need a university program, then you're a person who can get an incredible amount of value out of one as well. No school gives you anything, but you can take a hell of a lot out of a halfway decent program.
- erlanger 17y ago
  Unless you'd rather be in the working world than talking homework with a bunch of rich, naive kids.
  - abstractbill 17y ago
    You sound very bitter about this. For what it's worth, I have a PhD and was not a "rich kid" - I was fortunate enough to grow up in the UK at a time when the government gave grants to people who would not otherwise be able to afford a university education (I'm not sure if they still do this - I know a lot has changed).
    - robin_reala 17y ago
      They don’t. I believe the last tuition grants were issued in 1996, and they’d been price-frozen for a while before that.
      - axod 17y ago
        Shortly after Labour got into power they introduced tuition fees. There's still hope - they'll shortly be out of power, so who knows.
        jlees 17y ago
        At least a few years ago, when I did my undergrad, you didn't actually have to pay the fees if you were from a low income background though. Couple that with a student loan you don't have to pay off until you're earning, and it's not quite as evil as it sounds.
_pius 17y ago
there's little that college gives you as a developer I hear this fallacy a lot. A lot of people seem to give it a pass and nod along with it, maybe because it makes them feel better or maybe because it seems like the politically correct thing to say in a room full of talented hackers, only some of whom went to college. While you in no way need to go to college to be a developer, I think people should be highly skeptical of this claim. Look at the claim this way. Given two people with equal skill and ambition: * the first one spent four years learning computer science and software engineering in school while hacking * the second one spent four years hacking The claim is that those people more or less have the same skill set. It just seems unlikely that there's "very little" that the computer science program gave to the developer. It certainly doesn't match what I've actually seen in-field. Of course, I'm biased: I went to school for computer science. Does anyone actually have evidence to support the other side of the argument?
- erlanger 17y ago
  And you oh-so-effectively refute it.
  - _pius 17y ago
    Is that supposed to be an argument? Or is your argument that all people who go to college are "rich and naive kids" as you implied earlier in the thread? You're exposing a pretty huge chip on your shoulder.
    - erlanger 17y ago
      No, I posted that before parent edited his post (classy). Initially, he only claimed that my point was a fallacy and made no argument whatsoever.
      - _pius 17y ago
        No, I posted that before parent edited his post (classy). Now if only I could become as classy as you, injecting ad hominem jabs, bitter snark, and class warfare into the argument as a replacement for actually backing up your points. [edited for wit]

Pst. Don't exclude people without college degrees. They're often far more resourceful, in my experience, and there's little that college gives you as a developer. Hire the person, not the school.

jaxn 17y ago

Yeah, I don't have a college degree.

jaxn 17y ago
Why would this get down voted?
- abstractbill 17y ago
  Probably because it doesn't really add anything to the discussion.
- rjett 17y ago
  You're not adding anything to the conversation. If you had said, "Yea I don't have a college degree and I've taught myself six different programming languages and I'm working on x, y and z right now," that would have been a (marginally) better response to the parent than what you wrote.
  - jaxn 17y ago
    See, I think there is value in self-identification esp since not having a college degree makes you somewhat of a pariah in some circles. Granted, it would have been better to provide some prove as to why it is notable that I personally do not have a college degree, but being here at HN counts for something. But yeah, I have probably taught myself 6 programming languages (PHP, Ruby, Java, Python, Javascript, Perl, and some software specific programming tools like Lawson Process Flow, TSQL, etc). I have over 10 years of tech / business experience, own 2 retail clothing stores, took statzen.com to TechCrunch50 DemoPit last year, am about to launch http://gpsaAssassins.com http://gpsaAssassins.com, yada yada. I was going to go back and finish my BS, but something better keeps coming along. Now I am at a point where it doesn't seem worth it. So I am thinking I may one day clep out of a much of stuff and go get my MBA. Of course, by the time I have the time to go back to school the MBA probably won't seem worth it either. So, hopefully that adds a little more to the conversation. (Better late than never)
reconbot 17y ago
Me neither and there are a few instances where I regret it, but mostly during the time I "should" have been in school I was learning how to run my own company, live and provide for myself, taxes, health care and everything else. I have college educated friends who have gone back to working retail with no savings account because they don't know better. (I yell at them and teach them things from time to time, least I can do when I see friends making mistakes.) I think in the long run it wont matter what level of education I've "completed", I'm always going to be learning and I'm always going to try to be good at what I do. Taking classes might help me one day, you never know.

aaadddeeeaaa 17y ago

... great to see you excluding people WITH college degrees.

falien 17y ago

If you're a person who doesn't need a university program, then you're a person who can get an incredible amount of value out of one as well. No school gives you anything, but you can take a hell of a lot out of a halfway decent program.

erlanger 17y ago
Unless you'd rather be in the working world than talking homework with a bunch of rich, naive kids.
- abstractbill 17y ago
  You sound very bitter about this. For what it's worth, I have a PhD and was not a "rich kid" - I was fortunate enough to grow up in the UK at a time when the government gave grants to people who would not otherwise be able to afford a university education (I'm not sure if they still do this - I know a lot has changed).
  - robin_reala 17y ago
    They don’t. I believe the last tuition grants were issued in 1996, and they’d been price-frozen for a while before that.
    - axod 17y ago
      Shortly after Labour got into power they introduced tuition fees. There's still hope - they'll shortly be out of power, so who knows.
      - jlees 17y ago
        At least a few years ago, when I did my undergrad, you didn't actually have to pay the fees if you were from a low income background though. Couple that with a student loan you don't have to pay off until you're earning, and it's not quite as evil as it sounds.

_pius 17y ago

there's little that college gives you as a developer I hear this fallacy a lot. A lot of people seem to give it a pass and nod along with it, maybe because it makes them feel better or maybe because it seems like the politically correct thing to say in a room full of talented hackers, only some of whom went to college. While you in no way need to go to college to be a developer, I think people should be highly skeptical of this claim. Look at the claim this way. Given two people with equal skill and ambition: * the first one spent four years learning computer science and software engineering in school while hacking * the second one spent four years hacking The claim is that those people more or less have the same skill set. It just seems unlikely that there's "very little" that the computer science program gave to the developer. It certainly doesn't match what I've actually seen in-field. Of course, I'm biased: I went to school for computer science. Does anyone actually have evidence to support the other side of the argument?

erlanger 17y ago
And you oh-so-effectively refute it.
- _pius 17y ago
  Is that supposed to be an argument? Or is your argument that all people who go to college are "rich and naive kids" as you implied earlier in the thread? You're exposing a pretty huge chip on your shoulder.
  - erlanger 17y ago
    No, I posted that before parent edited his post (classy). Initially, he only claimed that my point was a fallacy and made no argument whatsoever.
    - _pius 17y ago
      No, I posted that before parent edited his post (classy). Now if only I could become as classy as you, injecting ad hominem jabs, bitter snark, and class warfare into the argument as a replacement for actually backing up your points. [edited for wit]