4 ms·

I'm sorry to say, but it really seems like many people here are talking right out of their ass. For people who actually lived in India for an extended period o

by axiom 19y ago

I'm sorry to say, but it really seems like many people here are talking right out of their ass. For people who actually lived in India for an extended period of time: 1. what is the driving force behind this market? is it purely aesthetics, like tanning creams, or does race play into it? 2. how large is the phenomenon? is it something common that many people think about or just a fringe market? 3. how is it viewed by the locals? are people who do this kind of thing ashamed to admit it?

ajju 19y ago
1) It is pure aesthetics, but the bias against darker skin, while not based on race, is deep rooted and does result in people with darker skin being discriminated against. It is not to the degree of dark skinned people not being allowed in X places, but it is bad enough that a groom would very often choose a fairer bride to a darker one. 2) It is very wide spread. 3) Not really. It has been around for thousands of years and has very little to do with recently developed fascination for or admiration for Europeans. Conceivably it could have it's roots in the "Aryan invasion" theory or a another time thousands of years ago when the ruling class had fair skin, but you will see references to "fair princesses" in mythological Hindu texts thousands of years ago. It is important to note though that there are references to "dark skinned beautiful women" also in some of these texts. So the bias could have been regional inside India. I don't know of anyone who has studied this extensively.
- axiom 19y ago
  Thank you for your response. One more question, is there a movement in India to counter this trend? kind of like the civil-rights movement in the US 50 years ago? Also, a related question, how prevalent is the caste system? are people discriminated against based on their caste? I hear it's not a significant factor anymore, but what's your experience been?
  - juwo 19y ago
    1) I hate to say it but often lower castes have dark skin and african features. You will also find most of the brightest students in a University are brahmins - the highest caste - just ask your friends their caste and correlate with their intelligence. The caste system is racist. You cannot change your caste. Period. You were born with it. It is interesting but sad. Forced hereditary occupations lead to differences in appearance and even IQ across thousands of years. Low castes clean toilets - high castes are priests in temples (translation: the intellectual leaders today). 2) The caste system is very prevalent. It also leads to corruption similarly as Rick Warren found tribalism was the cause of corruption in Africa. 3) How many white-black mixed marriages do you see in America? Not many. Most kids up for adoption are biracial black-white. The prejudices remain over here in the USA - at least in relationships. Read the chapter on preferences in interracial dating in the book Freakonomics.
    - rms 19y ago
      This is because the higher castes are wealthier! Wow. With what I know about the Indian education system, it is impossible to make it into the best schools without a great deal of personal wealth.
      - juwo 19y ago
        "it is impossible to make it into the best schools without a great deal of personal wealth" you are mistaken. The best Universities are almost free - subsidized by the government. (However in high schools, those that are English speaking Western schools do require wealth). Only brains counts. The IIT Math entrance exam is said to be the toughest in the world (google for past qs papers).
        ingenium 19y ago
        Yes, but you can't get into the universities without a good education before that. I work with many people from India from all age ranges, from 22 to their 50s who are all MDs or PhDs, and they all tell me that before a child is even born they have to begin bribing school officials to get them into one of the better schools. This continues every time the child/student goes to a different school until the university level. Without going to a good primary and secondary school, there is no chance of getting into a good university. Even at the university level there is a lot of bribing that takes place. When you have a society where bribing is the norm (nothing is possible without a bribe basically, and even then its not guaranteed), the people with wealth are obviously going to be the ones to benefit most and stay on top. No matter how intelligent, if you don't have the money for the bribes, you can't get anywhere.
  - ajju 19y ago
    Yes. Google Babasaheb Ambedkar. He led such a movement 50 years ago. This movement is now very politicized though and not very true to it's roots I am afraid.

by axiom 19y ago

ajju 19y ago

1) It is pure aesthetics, but the bias against darker skin, while not based on race, is deep rooted and does result in people with darker skin being discriminated against. It is not to the degree of dark skinned people not being allowed in X places, but it is bad enough that a groom would very often choose a fairer bride to a darker one. 2) It is very wide spread. 3) Not really. It has been around for thousands of years and has very little to do with recently developed fascination for or admiration for Europeans. Conceivably it could have it's roots in the "Aryan invasion" theory or a another time thousands of years ago when the ruling class had fair skin, but you will see references to "fair princesses" in mythological Hindu texts thousands of years ago. It is important to note though that there are references to "dark skinned beautiful women" also in some of these texts. So the bias could have been regional inside India. I don't know of anyone who has studied this extensively.

axiom 19y ago
Thank you for your response. One more question, is there a movement in India to counter this trend? kind of like the civil-rights movement in the US 50 years ago? Also, a related question, how prevalent is the caste system? are people discriminated against based on their caste? I hear it's not a significant factor anymore, but what's your experience been?
- juwo 19y ago
  1) I hate to say it but often lower castes have dark skin and african features. You will also find most of the brightest students in a University are brahmins - the highest caste - just ask your friends their caste and correlate with their intelligence. The caste system is racist. You cannot change your caste. Period. You were born with it. It is interesting but sad. Forced hereditary occupations lead to differences in appearance and even IQ across thousands of years. Low castes clean toilets - high castes are priests in temples (translation: the intellectual leaders today). 2) The caste system is very prevalent. It also leads to corruption similarly as Rick Warren found tribalism was the cause of corruption in Africa. 3) How many white-black mixed marriages do you see in America? Not many. Most kids up for adoption are biracial black-white. The prejudices remain over here in the USA - at least in relationships. Read the chapter on preferences in interracial dating in the book Freakonomics.
  - rms 19y ago
    This is because the higher castes are wealthier! Wow. With what I know about the Indian education system, it is impossible to make it into the best schools without a great deal of personal wealth.
    - juwo 19y ago
      "it is impossible to make it into the best schools without a great deal of personal wealth" you are mistaken. The best Universities are almost free - subsidized by the government. (However in high schools, those that are English speaking Western schools do require wealth). Only brains counts. The IIT Math entrance exam is said to be the toughest in the world (google for past qs papers).
      - ingenium 19y ago
        Yes, but you can't get into the universities without a good education before that. I work with many people from India from all age ranges, from 22 to their 50s who are all MDs or PhDs, and they all tell me that before a child is even born they have to begin bribing school officials to get them into one of the better schools. This continues every time the child/student goes to a different school until the university level. Without going to a good primary and secondary school, there is no chance of getting into a good university. Even at the university level there is a lot of bribing that takes place. When you have a society where bribing is the norm (nothing is possible without a bribe basically, and even then its not guaranteed), the people with wealth are obviously going to be the ones to benefit most and stay on top. No matter how intelligent, if you don't have the money for the bribes, you can't get anywhere.
- ajju 19y ago
  Yes. Google Babasaheb Ambedkar. He led such a movement 50 years ago. This movement is now very politicized though and not very true to it's roots I am afraid.