4 ms·

I was under the assumption that college is free for students in many European countries, assuming the student passed certain tests. If those tests aren't passe

by billsix 13y ago

I was under the assumption that college is free for students in many European countries, assuming the student passed certain tests. If those tests aren't passed, no college. Is that not correct?

wavefunction 13y ago
Are you implying that not everyone sufficiently motivated cannot pass the necessary tests? A question for a question ;)
Ihmahr 13y ago
That is correct. For example, if you want to study engineering you have to have certain math skills. Otherwise university won't let you in, no matter how much you pay. Oh, free college no. But tuition is something like $700 annual in germany/france. There is no housing or anything.
- dnautics 13y ago
  this is all and good for something like engineering where it is possible and maybe desirable to set some reasonable, objective standards. What about something like political sciences? Almost all of the upper-level public servants in a country like France come from the same school (ecole sciences-po)... Doesn't this become dangerous? Who gets to be the gatekeeper?
  - mordae 13y ago
    Well the entrance tests for Faculty of Philosophy that my close friend attended have been in the form of interview and they mostly asked about what authors did you read, what were they trying to say and such. It's actually not that complicated for people invested in some area (of science, politics, culture) to spot good candidates when you give them a chance. Sadly, the quality of education in Czech Republic have degraded significantly in capitalism. We have gotten rid of Marxism-Leninism but have also let significantly more people in and set the incentives to produce a lot of graduates with much less knowledge, with rest of the bulk being thrown out after 2 years so that the university gets maximum state support. We are probably going to end up with student loans and lower government participation, which will ruin our education system completely.
    - dnautics 13y ago
      This sounds like a mess. So If I've read the 'wrong authors' (say, bastiat for a right-wing critique of the government and bourdieu for a left-wing critique), I'm basically hosed in the interview. Can't have any radical changers in the public service, now can we... "the quality of education in Czech Republic have degraded significantly in capitalism... so that the university gets maximum state support." I wouldn't think 'university gets maximum state support' to be a shining example of (free-market) capitalism. If anything, it sounds exactly like what the original article complains, if only a bit more direct and less sneaky than channeling the mechanism of subsidy through a convoluted, corrupt, and rent-seeking banking system.
      - gems 13y ago
        I don't understand: there's nothing stopping you from reading what you want.
        dnautics 13y ago
        so, I'll read "Harry Potter" and "see spot run", and be entitled to a position at the school? There have to be standards.
  - Ihmahr 13y ago
    This question I can only answer for holland, where I live. Basically you can apply to any university and they will let you in. Sometimes you need maths, but mostly it is open. If you don't score 50 out of 60 credits in your first year you're out. You fail a class if your grades are too low, which is more frequent than would happen in usa.
    - dnautics 13y ago
      would never fly in the US. Students would sue for unfair (or worse, from a PR perspective, discriminatory) treatment. Education is a right, and by flunking those students, you are denying those students that right.
      - extra88 13y ago
        Nonsense. American students at public and private universities flunk out all the time.

by billsix 13y ago

I was under the assumption that college is free for students in many European countries, assuming the student passed certain tests. If those tests aren't passed, no college. Is that not correct?

wavefunction 13y ago

Are you implying that not everyone sufficiently motivated cannot pass the necessary tests? A question for a question ;)

Ihmahr 13y ago

That is correct. For example, if you want to study engineering you have to have certain math skills. Otherwise university won't let you in, no matter how much you pay. Oh, free college no. But tuition is something like $700 annual in germany/france. There is no housing or anything.

dnautics 13y ago
this is all and good for something like engineering where it is possible and maybe desirable to set some reasonable, objective standards. What about something like political sciences? Almost all of the upper-level public servants in a country like France come from the same school (ecole sciences-po)... Doesn't this become dangerous? Who gets to be the gatekeeper?
- mordae 13y ago
  Well the entrance tests for Faculty of Philosophy that my close friend attended have been in the form of interview and they mostly asked about what authors did you read, what were they trying to say and such. It's actually not that complicated for people invested in some area (of science, politics, culture) to spot good candidates when you give them a chance. Sadly, the quality of education in Czech Republic have degraded significantly in capitalism. We have gotten rid of Marxism-Leninism but have also let significantly more people in and set the incentives to produce a lot of graduates with much less knowledge, with rest of the bulk being thrown out after 2 years so that the university gets maximum state support. We are probably going to end up with student loans and lower government participation, which will ruin our education system completely.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    This sounds like a mess. So If I've read the 'wrong authors' (say, bastiat for a right-wing critique of the government and bourdieu for a left-wing critique), I'm basically hosed in the interview. Can't have any radical changers in the public service, now can we... "the quality of education in Czech Republic have degraded significantly in capitalism... so that the university gets maximum state support." I wouldn't think 'university gets maximum state support' to be a shining example of (free-market) capitalism. If anything, it sounds exactly like what the original article complains, if only a bit more direct and less sneaky than channeling the mechanism of subsidy through a convoluted, corrupt, and rent-seeking banking system.
    - gems 13y ago
      I don't understand: there's nothing stopping you from reading what you want.
      - dnautics 13y ago
        so, I'll read "Harry Potter" and "see spot run", and be entitled to a position at the school? There have to be standards.
- Ihmahr 13y ago
  This question I can only answer for holland, where I live. Basically you can apply to any university and they will let you in. Sometimes you need maths, but mostly it is open. If you don't score 50 out of 60 credits in your first year you're out. You fail a class if your grades are too low, which is more frequent than would happen in usa.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    would never fly in the US. Students would sue for unfair (or worse, from a PR perspective, discriminatory) treatment. Education is a right, and by flunking those students, you are denying those students that right.
    - extra88 13y ago
      Nonsense. American students at public and private universities flunk out all the time.