4 ms·

The article does not mention this fact because it's not true: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27. The net

by dhoe 17y ago

The article does not mention this fact because it's not true: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27. The net migration rate merely stopped growing.

miked 17y ago
Thanks for the catch. I've corrected it as per below. My source was (my memory of) a statement in a book that I read a while back. From a 2005 article: http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/why-are-they-all-going-18295.html http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/why-are-they-all-... "In 2004 almost 50,000 people born in the Netherlands decided to leave and live in a foreign country. Since 1954, the number of emigrants has never been so high. The Dutch economy, with the exception of the early 1980s, has never been so poor since 1954. The Netherlands is undergoing the longest period of stagnation in two generations, according to the latest statistics from the CPB Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis."
- robak 17y ago
  still doing much better than Americans without savings, bankrupt 401k, huge debts, health system for lucky few who can afford it.
jonas_b 17y ago
Even if it was true, would that in the case of NL indicate anything in regards to its taxes-welfare state? I thought it was a widely held "fact" that the NL is overcrowded and that dutchmen should try to find their lebensraum elsewhere.
- eru 17y ago
  Be careful playing with terms like "Lebensraum".
  - jonas_b 17y ago
    You're right, it was probably unnecessary. It's a pity though, cause the metaphorical meaning of living "room" is precisely what I meant.
    - eru 17y ago
      In modern German, Lebensraum is still a perfectly normal word when used as "the place where animals live". But we are very cautious about our history and the history of words. Sometimes bordering on (self-) censorship. So that caution is not necessarily a good thing.
      - jonas_b 17y ago
        Habitat might have been the word I was looking for. I agree that one should be careful when using emotionally charged words, but I also think that playful usage might be a way out of the self-censorship that surrounds a great many dreadful historical events. Not just in Germany.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    It's actually fairly astute. The reason "expanding Germany into the territory of neighboring countries we don't like" was so popular to Germans was because Germany (then and probably now) is fairly dense. One of my friends studied in Germany. One of his professors said something like, "Germany has never had enough land. We tried expanding once but it didn't work out so well." It's easy to imagine the Netherlands having the same problem. Of course, emigrating to a less dense country is an easier solution.
    - eru 17y ago
      "Germany" [1] did expand quite successfully eastwards during the Ostsiedlung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung) in the middle-ages. Modern Germany is dense, yes. But guess what: People are migrating en masse from states like Saxony-Anhalt (118 inhabitants/km²) to Baden-Württemberg (301 inhabitants/km²). [1] In quotation marks, because there was no state called Germany back then.

by dhoe 17y ago

The article does not mention this fact because it's not true: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27. The net migration rate merely stopped growing.

miked 17y ago

Thanks for the catch. I've corrected it as per below. My source was (my memory of) a statement in a book that I read a while back. From a 2005 article: http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/why-are-they-all-going-18295.html http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/why-are-they-all-... "In 2004 almost 50,000 people born in the Netherlands decided to leave and live in a foreign country. Since 1954, the number of emigrants has never been so high. The Dutch economy, with the exception of the early 1980s, has never been so poor since 1954. The Netherlands is undergoing the longest period of stagnation in two generations, according to the latest statistics from the CPB Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis."

robak 17y ago
still doing much better than Americans without savings, bankrupt 401k, huge debts, health system for lucky few who can afford it.

jonas_b 17y ago

Even if it was true, would that in the case of NL indicate anything in regards to its taxes-welfare state? I thought it was a widely held "fact" that the NL is overcrowded and that dutchmen should try to find their lebensraum elsewhere.

eru 17y ago
Be careful playing with terms like "Lebensraum".
- jonas_b 17y ago
  You're right, it was probably unnecessary. It's a pity though, cause the metaphorical meaning of living "room" is precisely what I meant.
  - eru 17y ago
    In modern German, Lebensraum is still a perfectly normal word when used as "the place where animals live". But we are very cautious about our history and the history of words. Sometimes bordering on (self-) censorship. So that caution is not necessarily a good thing.
    - jonas_b 17y ago
      Habitat might have been the word I was looking for. I agree that one should be careful when using emotionally charged words, but I also think that playful usage might be a way out of the self-censorship that surrounds a great many dreadful historical events. Not just in Germany.
- philwelch 17y ago
  It's actually fairly astute. The reason "expanding Germany into the territory of neighboring countries we don't like" was so popular to Germans was because Germany (then and probably now) is fairly dense. One of my friends studied in Germany. One of his professors said something like, "Germany has never had enough land. We tried expanding once but it didn't work out so well." It's easy to imagine the Netherlands having the same problem. Of course, emigrating to a less dense country is an easier solution.
  - eru 17y ago
    "Germany" [1] did expand quite successfully eastwards during the Ostsiedlung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung) in the middle-ages. Modern Germany is dense, yes. But guess what: People are migrating en masse from states like Saxony-Anhalt (118 inhabitants/km²) to Baden-Württemberg (301 inhabitants/km²). [1] In quotation marks, because there was no state called Germany back then.