3 ms·

Ignoring the terminology errors, and the fact that this is a pretty scummy and uninteresting business model (it's kind of like blogging about the awesome archit

by veidr 13y ago

Ignoring the terminology errors, and the fact that this is a pretty scummy and uninteresting business model (it's kind of like blogging about the awesome architecture you built to predict when people will be at home eating dinner so you can robocall them with telemarketing crap right then), this kind of system is also inherently unreliable. None of my email clients, on OS X, Windows, or Linux, will show that pixel unless I press a button or take some action. And I believe that is increasingly the default behavior of email clients, isn't it? Which means this technique will increasingly not work, and there is nothing close.io can do about it.

anemitz 13y ago
The internet is fun, so I'll bite. > scummy and uninteresting business model We make a sales communicate platform that integrates CRM + calling + email. <sarcasm> You're right, it is a pretty uninteresting business model in that we don't use some new-fangled financial instruments to cook our books -- it's just boring ole' monthly recurring revenue at a SaaS company. </sarcasm> Scummy? Don't even know where to begin on that one -- but if you're in the Bay Area ping me. I'd be happy to sit down and entertain any ideas you may have that we run a scummy outfit. Seriously. I really would like to understand the context behind that statement. It's not something I take lightly as a founder. > None of my email clients, on OS X, Windows, or Linux, will show that pixel unless I press a button or take some action. Yes and no. You can set most clients to load images by default -- I haven't tested the default settings on all clients so I can't speak about what percentage that accounts for. I'd assume someone like Mailchimp/Marketo/Pardot/etc. may have published some interesting findings about this. You're entirely right, however -- we can't do anything if a client blocks images. And that's OK. Tracking is a feature our customers love being able to utilize when they can, but they also understand that it's not entirely accurate.
- veidr 13y ago
  By "scummy" I am talking about the same thing as the other people in this thread talking about "poor taste", "ethics", and "morality". Surreptitiously tracking users without their knowledge or consent (and I mean the end users, not your users who are paying you to do it) just isn't something cool to brag about, any more than robocalling people at dinner, or a thousand other things that are nevertheless legal and make monthly recurring revenue for those who do them. Not saying you shouldn't be able to do it; a lot of unseemly and faintly repulsive things happen in the name of marketing. I'm just saying it's kind of a lame thing to do in general, and it is pretty off-putting to read a blog post that basically says, "Look how rad we are for tricking all these people and tracking them without their knowledge!"

by veidr 13y ago

anemitz 13y ago

The internet is fun, so I'll bite. > scummy and uninteresting business model We make a sales communicate platform that integrates CRM + calling + email. <sarcasm> You're right, it is a pretty uninteresting business model in that we don't use some new-fangled financial instruments to cook our books -- it's just boring ole' monthly recurring revenue at a SaaS company. </sarcasm> Scummy? Don't even know where to begin on that one -- but if you're in the Bay Area ping me. I'd be happy to sit down and entertain any ideas you may have that we run a scummy outfit. Seriously. I really would like to understand the context behind that statement. It's not something I take lightly as a founder. > None of my email clients, on OS X, Windows, or Linux, will show that pixel unless I press a button or take some action. Yes and no. You can set most clients to load images by default -- I haven't tested the default settings on all clients so I can't speak about what percentage that accounts for. I'd assume someone like Mailchimp/Marketo/Pardot/etc. may have published some interesting findings about this. You're entirely right, however -- we can't do anything if a client blocks images. And that's OK. Tracking is a feature our customers love being able to utilize when they can, but they also understand that it's not entirely accurate.

veidr 13y ago
By "scummy" I am talking about the same thing as the other people in this thread talking about "poor taste", "ethics", and "morality". Surreptitiously tracking users without their knowledge or consent (and I mean the end users, not your users who are paying you to do it) just isn't something cool to brag about, any more than robocalling people at dinner, or a thousand other things that are nevertheless legal and make monthly recurring revenue for those who do them. Not saying you shouldn't be able to do it; a lot of unseemly and faintly repulsive things happen in the name of marketing. I'm just saying it's kind of a lame thing to do in general, and it is pretty off-putting to read a blog post that basically says, "Look how rad we are for tricking all these people and tracking them without their knowledge!"