7 ms·

Source SDK 2013

84 points by bdz 13y ago

catmanjan 13y ago
This is an amazing step forward for the Open Source community, good on you Valve, you've proven you're in it for the long run.
- mambodog 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure this is their previously released SDK (though a new release for 2013) which is already available through Steam. What's new here is that they've put it up on GitHub.
  - catmanjan 13y ago
    I wouldn't know since I don't have Steam
    - dubcanada 13y ago
      All previous versions of Source SDK are widely available on their own system.
- throwaway2048 13y ago
  This code is not open source.
  - zeckalpha 13y ago
    http://opensource.org/docs/osd http://opensource.org/docs/osd It seems to satisfy 1-7
    - throwaway2048 13y ago
      From point 1 of the OSD 1. Free Redistribution The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale. From the source SDK license You may distribute your modified Valve game in source and object code form, but only for free. it is clearly not open source software.
  - catmanjan 13y ago
    I never said it was?
    - throwaway2048 13y ago
      Then how exactly is this an "Amazing step forward for the Open Source community"
      - catmanjan 13y ago
        I don't know many other popular commercial games with their up to date code based on GitHub. By posting Source source, it opens up learning opportunities for new developers and all other sorts of BS. For example, the way they do their sphericals didn't occur to me and for my next project I'll know better...
        spacelizard 13y ago
        It's certainly nice that you can study this code freely, but that isn't a good reason for anyone to use it. The restriction stating that "you can only use this to make mods of valve games" seems particularly ridiculous. For indie developers, there are plenty of free (as in freedom) replacements that are probably better to use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines#Free_and_open_source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines#Free_and_... For one, a properly free game engine will allow you to develop actual games, not just Half Life and Team Fortress mods.
        tomku 13y ago
        This code is not a "game engine", let alone a properly free one. It's an SDK specifically to make mods for the Source engine. It only has the code to build mod DLLs, not the main engine source code.
        kaoD 13y ago
        It's not the game code. It's just a mod development kit which has been available forever. This is just the latest version uploaded on GitHub. Not much of interest here. Do you want a truly open game company? Take a look at iD. THAT is Open. Many FLOSS games would be nothing without iD. John Carmack is the man. He releases actual engine code (not SDKs) and under GPL license! And that guy truly revolutionized 3d graphics (though iD's latest games are not very appealing to me) and instead of keeping the techniques as industrial secrets he releases his knowledge[1]. Seriously. Carmack is awesome. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume#Depth_fail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume#Depth_fail
sliverstorm 13y ago
I give it four hours until someone decides they aren't satisfied and starts bitching that it wasn't released under the GPL
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- spacelizard 13y ago
  The actual problem is that the license they are using is neither a valid free software license nor a valid open source license. The GPL would honestly be their best option if they wished to build a bigger community around Source engine modding, but I doubt that will ever happen.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - Argorak 13y ago
    No, it would not be, as the GPL would eliminate the core sentence of their current license: > You may, free of charge, download and use the SDK to develop a modified Valve game running on the Source engine. You may distribute your modified Valve game in source and object code form, but only for free. This would be prohibited by the GPL, as it eliminates fundamental freedoms (the right to sell the product). This sentence is (obviously) very important to Valves ecosystem.
    - pestaa 13y ago
      The GPL does not eliminate the right to sell the product. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en
      - patrickg 13y ago
        This is what the parent wrote. Edit: "it" refers to the Valve License (AIUI)
z3phyr 13y ago
Can I use it withought any steam game?
- throwaway2048 13y ago
  From the license: You may, free of charge, download and use the SDK to develop a modified Valve game running on the Source engine. It seems using it to modify a Valve game running on the Source engine is all hard requirement, which in turn requires Steam.
stefan_kendall 13y ago
And this, gentlemen, is why you always read the fucking license. Awful.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Yah, it is so terrible that valve would release something for free to those who could not pay, but would not supply the ingredients for a commercial effort without some consideration. What scumbags.
- kbar13 13y ago
  Would you be able to tell us why you believe the license is bad? Just wondering...
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
aspensmonster 13y ago
Looks like some of the SSE work in the mathlib directory is unimplemented or unverified in POSIX environments, or else implemented only in C. Not sure how crucial or not that would be in the big picture of things though. I'm sure it'd be fun to play with, but the license makes it a non-starter for any serious work.
7manr82h 13y ago
now to patiently wait for viva64 guy to do a src code review.
- BHSPitMonkey 13y ago
  This isn't a game engine or a game; It's just the SDK for modders.
1qaz2wsx3edc 13y ago
Press Release: http://store.steampowered.com/news/10962/ http://store.steampowered.com/news/10962/ > We have released an update to the Source SDK, bringing support for Mac OS X and Linux to mod developers and exposing the ability for virtual reality support in your mod.
7manr82h 13y ago
#define JEEP_SEAGULL_POOP_INTERVAL 45.0 // Interval between checks for seagull poopage yes
tech-dragon 13y ago
This is great. Now we are free to help remove dependencies, improve this engine and in the long run hopefully help Valve take further steps into being a more Open Company , I hope that Valve change the license once they are in a position to do so. They are in a staggeringly odd turn of events starting to 'Open Up ' and working within the view of the outside public on a number of high profile software projects. They are making good moves, I for one intend to encourage them to make more by helping! Pull requests to help them will make them realize they will gain more if the engine is even more open, its a matter of time. And specifically to the people complaining about the license file https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... . The likely reason that it cannot at this time be changed will probably be the legal agreements Valve has signed regarding the stuff you will read if you open up one of the other files up in the root of the repo thirdpartylegalnotices.txt https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/thirdpartylegalnotices.txt https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... Edit--- It looks like people are already hacking away and fixing stuff! https://github.com/AnAkIn1/source-sdk-2013/commit/fe2fa2204be07fc35e69a63b587e8c0395548e60 https://github.com/AnAkIn1/source-sdk-2013/commit/fe2fa2204b...
- kaoD 13y ago
  Open company? What the...? This is just an SDK. It's for their own convenience! You make mods for their closed source Source engine (see what I did there?) and they earn tons of money and Steam users. What's Open about that? How are you going to remove the Source dependency? Game companies have been releasing SDKs since what feels like forever. I love Valve's games, but you have to give credit where it's due.
- MattDL 13y ago
  This is just the mod SDK, it isn't the Source engine code.
kaoD 13y ago
Guys, stop pissing your pants, this is not the Source engine. It's just a damn SDK for modders. Lots of comments seem to imply the former, which is not the case. You can't do anything with this code without Source.
- mambodog 13y ago
  To expand, this SDK mostly only builds a few DLLs which allow mods to override various parts of the game logic. It doesn't include the source for the main hl2.exe, for example. This is how all mods have been built for Valve games dating back to the original Half-Life.
s_husso 13y ago
It would be nice that README would hold more information than the license. Maybe link to this https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK2013_GettingStarted https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK2013_GettingStar... if the wiki is a better place to hold the information.
x3ro 13y ago
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/sp/src/game/client/vgui_video.cpp#L74 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... This seems to be some HL2EP1 specific stuff in there X'D
ajanuary 13y ago
This new release seems to have support for Linux and OS X, which is a new addition to the Source SDK. Previously you've only been able to use mods on Windows. This might be enough to get me back into modding for a bit.

Source SDK 2013

84 points by bdz 13y ago

This is an amazing step forward for the Open Source community, good on you Valve, you've proven you're in it for the long run.

mambodog 13y ago
I'm pretty sure this is their previously released SDK (though a new release for 2013) which is already available through Steam. What's new here is that they've put it up on GitHub.
- catmanjan 13y ago
  I wouldn't know since I don't have Steam
  - dubcanada 13y ago
    All previous versions of Source SDK are widely available on their own system.
throwaway2048 13y ago
This code is not open source.
- zeckalpha 13y ago
  http://opensource.org/docs/osd http://opensource.org/docs/osd It seems to satisfy 1-7
  - throwaway2048 13y ago
    From point 1 of the OSD 1. Free Redistribution The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale. From the source SDK license You may distribute your modified Valve game in source and object code form, but only for free. it is clearly not open source software.
- catmanjan 13y ago
  I never said it was?
  - throwaway2048 13y ago
    Then how exactly is this an "Amazing step forward for the Open Source community"
    - catmanjan 13y ago
      I don't know many other popular commercial games with their up to date code based on GitHub. By posting Source source, it opens up learning opportunities for new developers and all other sorts of BS. For example, the way they do their sphericals didn't occur to me and for my next project I'll know better...
      - spacelizard 13y ago
        It's certainly nice that you can study this code freely, but that isn't a good reason for anyone to use it. The restriction stating that "you can only use this to make mods of valve games" seems particularly ridiculous. For indie developers, there are plenty of free (as in freedom) replacements that are probably better to use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines#Free_and_open_source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines#Free_and_... For one, a properly free game engine will allow you to develop actual games, not just Half Life and Team Fortress mods.
        tomku 13y ago
        This code is not a "game engine", let alone a properly free one. It's an SDK specifically to make mods for the Source engine. It only has the code to build mod DLLs, not the main engine source code.
      - kaoD 13y ago
        It's not the game code. It's just a mod development kit which has been available forever. This is just the latest version uploaded on GitHub. Not much of interest here. Do you want a truly open game company? Take a look at iD. THAT is Open. Many FLOSS games would be nothing without iD. John Carmack is the man. He releases actual engine code (not SDKs) and under GPL license! And that guy truly revolutionized 3d graphics (though iD's latest games are not very appealing to me) and instead of keeping the techniques as industrial secrets he releases his knowledge[1]. Seriously. Carmack is awesome. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume#Depth_fail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume#Depth_fail

sliverstorm 13y ago

I give it four hours until someone decides they aren't satisfied and starts bitching that it wasn't released under the GPL

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
spacelizard 13y ago
The actual problem is that the license they are using is neither a valid free software license nor a valid open source license. The GPL would honestly be their best option if they wished to build a bigger community around Source engine modding, but I doubt that will ever happen.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- Argorak 13y ago
  No, it would not be, as the GPL would eliminate the core sentence of their current license: > You may, free of charge, download and use the SDK to develop a modified Valve game running on the Source engine. You may distribute your modified Valve game in source and object code form, but only for free. This would be prohibited by the GPL, as it eliminates fundamental freedoms (the right to sell the product). This sentence is (obviously) very important to Valves ecosystem.
  - pestaa 13y ago
    The GPL does not eliminate the right to sell the product. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.en
    - patrickg 13y ago
      This is what the parent wrote. Edit: "it" refers to the Valve License (AIUI)

z3phyr 13y ago

Can I use it withought any steam game?

throwaway2048 13y ago
From the license: You may, free of charge, download and use the SDK to develop a modified Valve game running on the Source engine. It seems using it to modify a Valve game running on the Source engine is all hard requirement, which in turn requires Steam.

stefan_kendall 13y ago

And this, gentlemen, is why you always read the fucking license. Awful.

jamesaguilar 13y ago
Yah, it is so terrible that valve would release something for free to those who could not pay, but would not supply the ingredients for a commercial effort without some consideration. What scumbags.
kbar13 13y ago
Would you be able to tell us why you believe the license is bad? Just wondering...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

aspensmonster 13y ago

Looks like some of the SSE work in the mathlib directory is unimplemented or unverified in POSIX environments, or else implemented only in C. Not sure how crucial or not that would be in the big picture of things though. I'm sure it'd be fun to play with, but the license makes it a non-starter for any serious work.

7manr82h 13y ago

now to patiently wait for viva64 guy to do a src code review.

BHSPitMonkey 13y ago
This isn't a game engine or a game; It's just the SDK for modders.

1qaz2wsx3edc 13y ago

Press Release: http://store.steampowered.com/news/10962/ http://store.steampowered.com/news/10962/ > We have released an update to the Source SDK, bringing support for Mac OS X and Linux to mod developers and exposing the ability for virtual reality support in your mod.

7manr82h 13y ago

#define JEEP_SEAGULL_POOP_INTERVAL 45.0 // Interval between checks for seagull poopage yes

tech-dragon 13y ago

This is great. Now we are free to help remove dependencies, improve this engine and in the long run hopefully help Valve take further steps into being a more Open Company , I hope that Valve change the license once they are in a position to do so. They are in a staggeringly odd turn of events starting to 'Open Up ' and working within the view of the outside public on a number of high profile software projects. They are making good moves, I for one intend to encourage them to make more by helping! Pull requests to help them will make them realize they will gain more if the engine is even more open, its a matter of time. And specifically to the people complaining about the license file https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... . The likely reason that it cannot at this time be changed will probably be the legal agreements Valve has signed regarding the stuff you will read if you open up one of the other files up in the root of the repo thirdpartylegalnotices.txt https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/thirdpartylegalnotices.txt https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... Edit--- It looks like people are already hacking away and fixing stuff! https://github.com/AnAkIn1/source-sdk-2013/commit/fe2fa2204be07fc35e69a63b587e8c0395548e60 https://github.com/AnAkIn1/source-sdk-2013/commit/fe2fa2204b...

kaoD 13y ago
Open company? What the...? This is just an SDK. It's for their own convenience! You make mods for their closed source Source engine (see what I did there?) and they earn tons of money and Steam users. What's Open about that? How are you going to remove the Source dependency? Game companies have been releasing SDKs since what feels like forever. I love Valve's games, but you have to give credit where it's due.
MattDL 13y ago
This is just the mod SDK, it isn't the Source engine code.

kaoD 13y ago

Guys, stop pissing your pants, this is not the Source engine. It's just a damn SDK for modders. Lots of comments seem to imply the former, which is not the case. You can't do anything with this code without Source.

mambodog 13y ago
To expand, this SDK mostly only builds a few DLLs which allow mods to override various parts of the game logic. It doesn't include the source for the main hl2.exe, for example. This is how all mods have been built for Valve games dating back to the original Half-Life.

s_husso 13y ago

It would be nice that README would hold more information than the license. Maybe link to this https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK2013_GettingStarted https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK2013_GettingStar... if the wiki is a better place to hold the information.

x3ro 13y ago

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/sp/src/game/client/vgui_video.cpp#L74 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... This seems to be some HL2EP1 specific stuff in there X'D

ajanuary 13y ago

This new release seems to have support for Linux and OS X, which is a new addition to the Source SDK. Previously you've only been able to use mods on Windows. This might be enough to get me back into modding for a bit.