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I agree with everything except "forced the Chinese and Irish to work under horrific conditions building the nation's railways." The conditions were terrible, bu

by zhemao 13y ago

I agree with everything except "forced the Chinese and Irish to work under horrific conditions building the nation's railways." The conditions were terrible, but I don't think the laborers were forced. They were paid, voluntary labor. Perhaps you would say that they were exploited by their employers, but they weren't "forced" in quite the same way as, say, African laborers prior to 1864.

mpyne 13y ago
Fair enough, though I would say that there wasn't much of a choice presented to them once they reached our shores because working the rails (or other beyond-menial tasks) or starving. :-/
- zhemao 13y ago
  Well yeah, that goes without saying. Obviously they wouldn't have taken such a dangerous job if they had better options. They probably wouldn't have left Ireland or China in the first place if they weren't facing poverty and starvation. Course, there was a lot of Nativist sentiment against the Irish and the Chinese that kept them from getting better employment, and that certainly is a mark against the US. But not necessarily in terms of "freedom", as that was a ugly part of civil society and not of government policy. Now, the Chinese exclusion act, on the other hand ...
rdouble 13y ago
Not sure about the Chinese or railroad workers in particular but most Irish arriving in the USA prior to the mid-1800s were indentured servants.
mark_l_watson 13y ago
Not to be critical, but off course the Chinese laborers were for all intents slaves. After the railroad was built, they were put to work digging 1000 miles of cancels that became the Sacramento delta region.
- wisty 13y ago
  Many of the Chinese were probably in debt to the Chinese mafia (triads, if they were Cantonese). It's a very common con - you take out a loan to get transported to a richer place (often with bait-and-switch jobs), then have to pay back the guy who took you there. In some cases, family can be held hostage. It still happens (though it's different nationalities).

by zhemao 13y ago

mpyne 13y ago

Fair enough, though I would say that there wasn't much of a choice presented to them once they reached our shores because working the rails (or other beyond-menial tasks) or starving. :-/

zhemao 13y ago
Well yeah, that goes without saying. Obviously they wouldn't have taken such a dangerous job if they had better options. They probably wouldn't have left Ireland or China in the first place if they weren't facing poverty and starvation. Course, there was a lot of Nativist sentiment against the Irish and the Chinese that kept them from getting better employment, and that certainly is a mark against the US. But not necessarily in terms of "freedom", as that was a ugly part of civil society and not of government policy. Now, the Chinese exclusion act, on the other hand ...

rdouble 13y ago

Not sure about the Chinese or railroad workers in particular but most Irish arriving in the USA prior to the mid-1800s were indentured servants.

mark_l_watson 13y ago

Not to be critical, but off course the Chinese laborers were for all intents slaves. After the railroad was built, they were put to work digging 1000 miles of cancels that became the Sacramento delta region.

wisty 13y ago
Many of the Chinese were probably in debt to the Chinese mafia (triads, if they were Cantonese). It's a very common con - you take out a loan to get transported to a richer place (often with bait-and-switch jobs), then have to pay back the guy who took you there. In some cases, family can be held hostage. It still happens (though it's different nationalities).