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Because our lower education system pounds the idea of "you're nothing if you don't go to college" into everyone's heads for twelve years. We've all been told th

Because our lower education system pounds the idea of "you're nothing if you don't go to college" into everyone's heads for twelve years. We've all been told that if we go through college and get the degree, we'll be all set in life. I think the millennials have it worst of all so far but it's not just them. Somewhere along the lines, college changed from being a stepping stone to the goal in and of itself.. and no one considered what comes after.

JonFish85 13y ago
If I may expand upon what you've said... A lot of this is anecdotal so take it for what it is. Let's rewind a generation or so and pretend to be our parents. At a very basic level, looking around, I see a pattern of "X went to college, and X has a better standard of living than I do". Easy answer: college makes life better. I want my kids to do that well, so I better get little Sally to go to college. I don't know whether that's entirely true or not, but I think that college has been the "easy answer" for a generation. Somehow things like work-ethic, realistic career goals, etc. got lost along the way. I hate the idea that "if we go through college and get the degree, we'll be all set in life." Who has been saying that? Anyone saying that is either lazy or worse. All degrees were not created equal, and it seems that a surprising number of people either honestly thought all degrees were equally valuable or people simply didn't put any thought into their career or life before signing up for tens of thousands of dollars in loans. If we use the same analogy I had above, I think the "if you go to college, you'll be set" is completely wrong. 20 years ago, the people who went to college were, in general, the more motivated set of people who actively sought to go to college. They weren't just following the prescribed plan, they actually were thinking about what they wanted to do with their lives, what they loved, how to achieve their goals. Now that college is the "default", everyone goes to college, it's just expected. Anyways, this whole thing wasn't a bash on people who do and don't go to college. Of course there are going to be more taxi drivers with college degrees now: a much higher percentage of people have college degrees now. Everyone is expected and encouraged to go to college. There are still going to be taxi drivers, bartenders and other such positions.
- acheron 13y ago
  The term I like is "cargo cult social science". Going to college was highly correlated with a strong work ethic, motivation, future-planning, etc. General success. Therefore certain people came to the conclusion: make it easier for everyone to go to college, and everyone will receive the same benefits. So everyone goes to college, but that obviously doesn't actually increase the prevalence of work ethic or motivation in the general population, it just means that those who don't have it end up with a useless degree and some non-dischargable debt. The same thing played out with homeownership too. Owning a home was correlated with some types of success -- often the same ones for higher education -- so much effort is expended making it easier to own a home. And we saw how well that worked out.
  - 6d0debc071 13y ago
    Reminds me of this a little while ago: http://micros.swindon-college.ac.uk/sites/micros.swindon-college.ac.uk/files/nothing_in_common_final.pdf http://micros.swindon-college.ac.uk/sites/micros.swindon-col...
EpicEng 13y ago
Agreed 100%. I know many will tear me apart for this, but not everyone is cut out for higher education, and lowering standards does not make that any less true. There is nothing wrong with skilled labor. We need it and it is vital for any economy. The problem is that many of us teach our kids to look down upon such career paths. "You're nothing if you don't go to college" seems to be a common sentiment instilled in our children as they grow up. Well, often times you're nothing if you do go to college because a million other 22 year olds with the same middle of the road academic resume graduated right alongside with you. Have fun delivering pizzas.
- caseysoftware 13y ago
  I have a electrician cousin and uncles in carpentry and EMT.. sure, they don't earn as much as most software developers annually, but they started before and with less debt than almost anyone who went to college. Throw in the fact that working more than 40 hours is called "overtime" in many cases, it seems like reasonable trade offs. (Then again, maybe it's a "grass is greener" view.)
  - EpicEng 13y ago
    Funnily enough, I also have a cousin who is an electrician. We have been very close all of our lives (my parents adopted him at 14) and he went the college route at first. He wanted to write software. Now, Josh (my cousin) is not a stupid person by any means, but he's also not academically inclined. He's not very technical and, for example, doesn't enjoy reading the Principia in his spare time. What he does enjoy is having a steady job that pays him well enough to support his family. He has that as an electrician and he has a good amount of job security. He is not an unskilled worker and he cannot be replaced by any Joe Shmoe off the street. That's more than can be said of many of the people I went to high school with (graduated in '01) who have college degrees (lots of marketing and psychology majors here).
waylandsmithers 13y ago
>Somewhere along the lines, college changed from being a stepping stone to the goal in and of itself.. and no one considered what comes after. I think some colleges and universities themselves are a part of this. The attitude from my school (small liberal arts) at least was that college was explicitly NOT meant to be training you for your future career, but rather that your studies were worthwhile for the sake of learning and personal enrichment. Just a lot of the "teaching you how to think" bs that liberal arts schools tend to sell themselves on.
- null_ptr 13y ago
  I think a good degree gives you both. It's important to learn how to study and think on your own, it's the only way to keep yourself from becoming obsolete. This is even more so important in technology and computing.
- tsotha 13y ago
  That whole "we aren't a vocational school" attitude is fine for wealthy people, but if you're going to go $150k into hock to get your degree you better have something that makes you attractive to employers.

JonFish85 13y ago

If I may expand upon what you've said... A lot of this is anecdotal so take it for what it is. Let's rewind a generation or so and pretend to be our parents. At a very basic level, looking around, I see a pattern of "X went to college, and X has a better standard of living than I do". Easy answer: college makes life better. I want my kids to do that well, so I better get little Sally to go to college. I don't know whether that's entirely true or not, but I think that college has been the "easy answer" for a generation. Somehow things like work-ethic, realistic career goals, etc. got lost along the way. I hate the idea that "if we go through college and get the degree, we'll be all set in life." Who has been saying that? Anyone saying that is either lazy or worse. All degrees were not created equal, and it seems that a surprising number of people either honestly thought all degrees were equally valuable or people simply didn't put any thought into their career or life before signing up for tens of thousands of dollars in loans. If we use the same analogy I had above, I think the "if you go to college, you'll be set" is completely wrong. 20 years ago, the people who went to college were, in general, the more motivated set of people who actively sought to go to college. They weren't just following the prescribed plan, they actually were thinking about what they wanted to do with their lives, what they loved, how to achieve their goals. Now that college is the "default", everyone goes to college, it's just expected. Anyways, this whole thing wasn't a bash on people who do and don't go to college. Of course there are going to be more taxi drivers with college degrees now: a much higher percentage of people have college degrees now. Everyone is expected and encouraged to go to college. There are still going to be taxi drivers, bartenders and other such positions.

acheron 13y ago
The term I like is "cargo cult social science". Going to college was highly correlated with a strong work ethic, motivation, future-planning, etc. General success. Therefore certain people came to the conclusion: make it easier for everyone to go to college, and everyone will receive the same benefits. So everyone goes to college, but that obviously doesn't actually increase the prevalence of work ethic or motivation in the general population, it just means that those who don't have it end up with a useless degree and some non-dischargable debt. The same thing played out with homeownership too. Owning a home was correlated with some types of success -- often the same ones for higher education -- so much effort is expended making it easier to own a home. And we saw how well that worked out.
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  Reminds me of this a little while ago: http://micros.swindon-college.ac.uk/sites/micros.swindon-college.ac.uk/files/nothing_in_common_final.pdf http://micros.swindon-college.ac.uk/sites/micros.swindon-col...

EpicEng 13y ago

Agreed 100%. I know many will tear me apart for this, but not everyone is cut out for higher education, and lowering standards does not make that any less true. There is nothing wrong with skilled labor. We need it and it is vital for any economy. The problem is that many of us teach our kids to look down upon such career paths. "You're nothing if you don't go to college" seems to be a common sentiment instilled in our children as they grow up. Well, often times you're nothing if you do go to college because a million other 22 year olds with the same middle of the road academic resume graduated right alongside with you. Have fun delivering pizzas.

caseysoftware 13y ago
I have a electrician cousin and uncles in carpentry and EMT.. sure, they don't earn as much as most software developers annually, but they started before and with less debt than almost anyone who went to college. Throw in the fact that working more than 40 hours is called "overtime" in many cases, it seems like reasonable trade offs. (Then again, maybe it's a "grass is greener" view.)
- EpicEng 13y ago
  Funnily enough, I also have a cousin who is an electrician. We have been very close all of our lives (my parents adopted him at 14) and he went the college route at first. He wanted to write software. Now, Josh (my cousin) is not a stupid person by any means, but he's also not academically inclined. He's not very technical and, for example, doesn't enjoy reading the Principia in his spare time. What he does enjoy is having a steady job that pays him well enough to support his family. He has that as an electrician and he has a good amount of job security. He is not an unskilled worker and he cannot be replaced by any Joe Shmoe off the street. That's more than can be said of many of the people I went to high school with (graduated in '01) who have college degrees (lots of marketing and psychology majors here).

waylandsmithers 13y ago

>Somewhere along the lines, college changed from being a stepping stone to the goal in and of itself.. and no one considered what comes after. I think some colleges and universities themselves are a part of this. The attitude from my school (small liberal arts) at least was that college was explicitly NOT meant to be training you for your future career, but rather that your studies were worthwhile for the sake of learning and personal enrichment. Just a lot of the "teaching you how to think" bs that liberal arts schools tend to sell themselves on.

null_ptr 13y ago
I think a good degree gives you both. It's important to learn how to study and think on your own, it's the only way to keep yourself from becoming obsolete. This is even more so important in technology and computing.
tsotha 13y ago
That whole "we aren't a vocational school" attitude is fine for wealthy people, but if you're going to go $150k into hock to get your degree you better have something that makes you attractive to employers.