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This entire article is an exercise in idiocy, full of loaded comments. This is what actually happens: Man tells woman she is attractive ... Another woman inter
by shanelja 13y ago
This entire article is an exercise in idiocy, full of loaded comments. This is what actually happens:
Man tells woman she is attractive ... Another woman interprets this as sexism
It might be an inappropriate time to say it, but this is rudeness, not sexism. How often is it that you are talking to someone, anyone, they comment on how attractive you are and you are sorely offended? Never? Because I know from my personal experiences (as a highly privileged cis male of course) that I love being complimented.
If we are to interpret every single unrequested compliment as sexism that feminists will soon find that they are unable to find a boyfriend.
If you want an example of sexism, then here is one, from the very fingers of the feminist news reporter herself: "that she looks like a woman but acts like a man." Why should any woman need to act like a man? In this day and age do we still believe in these traditional gender roles, that only a man can be effective in a leadership position?
And then some victim blaming: "Mayer didn't [...] [goad] the "dirty old man" with some low-cut top or skimpy outfit [...] But, of course, you weren't even wondering that, were you?" No, as a matter of fact, I wasn't. That comment was an unnecessary attempt to read the mind of the reader. At no point did I assume that this respected member of her community would be sat in her shareholders meeting wearing a bikini or a v-neck down to her stomach.
Propaganda, the lot of it.
- PavlovsCat 13y agoIt might be an inappropriate time to say it, but this is rudeness, not sexism. How often is it that you are talking to someone, anyone, they comment on how attractive you are and you are sorely offended? While pointing out they have power/money, while the other party has the looks? That happens a lot, and only ever [edit: usually, 99% like] one way. Even older rich women who hit on me do it more like a young girl would than this dude would. So, no. If you want idiocy or propaganda, try your own post.
- tbrownaw 13y agoIt sounded like his comments followed the format of <why I'm (allowed to be) here> <interesting tidbits about me> <what I wanted to talk about>. The 2000 shares is the first part (which doesn't count as having power/money given how many shares yahoo has); the inappropriate comments are the second part; whatever he goes on to say after (there is something, but I didn't pay attention) is the third part. I would think that format is typical for public (or semi-public) meetings where anyone who wants to is allowed to present to the group.
- PavlovsCat 13y agoI would think that format is typical for public (or semi-public) meetings where anyone who wants to is allowed to present to the group. Yes. and? Calling such a remark a "tidbit about himself" sounds like a tolerance for sexism on the side I don't have. For all you know, the part he "really wanted to talk" about could just be a pretext to drop that particular turd err I mean tidbit into her lap.
- tbrownaw 13y agoYes. and? I would dispute the "pointing out they have power/money" part. Both because he doesn't, and because I would assume that information is expected from anyone who talks. Calling such a remark a "tidbit about himself" sounds like a tolerance for sexism on the side I don't have. And I assume calling it "inappropriate" does as well?
- PavlovsCat 13y agoWell, then whatever is your point is in telling me his comments were following the correct format, unless you replied to the wrong post or something? That it could have been worse, that he could have said it in the elevator? Sure. To me the story isn't that guy, he's probably fine, and if he's not I don't care. The mixture between genuinely thinking that's cool and polite laughter is what annoys me more, just like the reaction here did more than the story. Not that I'm saying cancel the meeting and tar the guy, but at least let her respond on her own terms instead of already deciding it was "just a joke"? Or even just saying "feminists" like it was a disease or at least some hardcore bias. It's being called a member of modern civilization, which is kind of this shadow culture utterly lost on those not part of it. HN should understand that, right?
- mtoddh 13y agocis male cis male? Am I the only one who has no idea what this is?
- shanelja 13y agoIt's a term commonly used by feminists and transgender people to describe straight white males.
- cpdean 13y agoWhat about the other ethnicities?
- shanelja 13y agoIt tends to be used as a way to describe what is considered the most privileged group of people by certain rights activists groups (and also a few bigots, as with every group, there are bad eggs.) White people are considered more privileged than say, black people, because of studies showing that more black people tend to be brought up in poverty or that Mexican people tend to be brought up in worse neighbourhoods. (These are generalizations which I don't support by the way, I'm describing an external viewpoint, not my own.)
- dfxm12 13y agoDon't hide behind the concept of "speaking for other people". If you do, provide citations. I've never heard cis used this way, and it is not the definition, by any stretch.
- icebraining 13y agoUh, no, it's not used to describe what is considered the most privileged group, nor does it have anything to do with being white; if it did, the common expression "white cis male" would be redundant. Cis is the antonym of trans, so cisgender is a term to refer to non-transgender people.
- meddlepal 13y ago
- Herald_MJ 13y agoA comment doesn't have to cause offence in order to be sexist, just as much as causing offence doesn't make a comment sexist. The comment is sexist, by "I have 2000 Yahoo shares", he means "I have power over you", and "I'm a dirty old man and you look attractive", could be interpreted as "I don't respect your power over me, you're just a woman and all you can do is be pretty", which is an attempt at debasement.
- dfxm12 13y agoThe comment is sexist, by "I have 2000 Yahoo shares", he means "I have power over you" But what does this have to do with gender? "I'm a dirty old man and you look attractive", could be interpreted as "I don't respect your power over me, you're just a woman and all you can do is be pretty", which is an attempt at debasement. could be interpreted One could interpret anything as anything...
- DanBC 13y ago> But what does this have to do with gender? a MAN asks the question of a WOMAN. It really couldn't be any fucking clearer.
- dfxm12 13y agoa MAN asks the question of a WOMAN. A man asking a woman a question is not by definition sexist. A sexist question needs to prove "power over" based on gender, not shares owned in a company.
- rayiner 13y agoYou're ignoring the basic fact that 99% of communication is context. "Hey you're hot" conveys an entirely different message in a bar than it does in a shareholder meeting. In the latter context, it's equivalent to saying: "you might be a high powered executive, but you're still just eye candy to me."
- PavlovsCat 13y agoI like this comment on the blog post: "Well, if you were a woman at a shareholders meeting, would you comment on the looks (good or bad) of any men on the board, when addressing the board? Pro Tip: These types of comments are inappropriate in that setting." There is a thing such as "color-blind racism", that is IIRC dismissing race playing a factor when it actually does, either out of lack of awareness or harboured racism. I postulate there is such a thing as "gender-blind sexism", too. I do think it's scummy, and I do not think putting scummy in quotes is okay, unless it's actually a quote. I furthermore know it is the tip of an iceberg (I don't mean the guy, whom I don't know, I mean society). Therefore I do not feel comfortable about anything other than being blunt, direct, humour- and relentless when it comes to this. This is not just a "remark", and the internet reactions to such topics are not all just trolls, it's indicator of work ahead of us.
- lotsofcows 13y agoReally? I'm not sure about eye candy but I find high powered executives intrinsically "hot". Apparently, it's an evolutionary thing...
- hownottowrite 13y agoI skipped the article and went straight to the video. The investor's comment isn't rude. It's sexist. Sexism isn't about saying something "inappropriate". Sexism is about power and the abuse of gender to assert said power. Let me break the dynamic down for you: 1. This investor is in a weak position. He is not on the panel and he is a small time shareholder. He's a little nervous. 2. The investor gets his chance to ask a question. He makes a "joke" which reduces the stature of the person to whom he is speaking and elevates his sense of dominance. 3. The laughter in the room adds a little more juice to his ego. That's what this kind of "joke" does. 4. Then, he asks his actual question from a more powerful position. My guess is that he probably "jokes" with lots of people in this sort of way. Little so-called jokes. What makes it sexist is that the comments are gender based and really quite offensive if you think it all the way through. What makes it really sad is that this sort of thing happens all the time and women are expected to just "laugh it off".
- tbrownaw 13y agoSexism is about power and the abuse of gender to assert said power. The definition I found is: "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.". Institutionalized sexism would be necessary in order to be able to assert power via gender, but I don't think this necessarily makes them the same thing? 2. [...] He makes a "joke" which reduces the stature of the person to whom he is speaking and elevates his sense of dominance. I would have thought it would reduce his own stature ("dirty old man" is not a good thing). Which is something that nervous speakers do seem to do for some reason.
- hownottowrite 13y agoThe definition I found is : "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." Dig down another level and take a look at the root of prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. You'll find all three are about assertion of power over another person or group of people on the basis of certain criteria (race, gender, ethnicity, etc). I would have thought it would reduce his own stature, which is something that nervous speakers do seem to do for some reason. That's the trick of self-deprecating humor. It's very effective in deflecting criticism from others. After all, once you've said something outrageous about yourself what else can someone do to you? However, it can also be used to soften or excuse what's likely to be a controversial statement. The investor's opening prattle works pretty much the same way. I should point out that it is highly unlikely the investor planned these remarks. It is more a learned action, practiced over time, which has become institutionalized in his behavior and the behavior of those like him.