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Likewise. I really liked WikiLeaks at the beginning but it became clear after some time that there was a definite agenda behind their actions. The impression I'

by mpyne 13y ago

Likewise. I really liked WikiLeaks at the beginning but it became clear after some time that there was a definite agenda behind their actions. The impression I've had for years is that they will oppose the U.S. for no better reason than that it's the U.S. Which is, if you think about it, just like opposing any maligned group for what they are instead of what they do. In other words if we start from the assumption that the U.S. should be a "bastion of the free world" then it would make sense to tirelessly note instances where the U.S., corporations, states, etc. fall from that ideal. But diplomatic cables describing what kind of women Berlusconi likes, while interesting, are hardly indicators of the collapse of a free society. Those types of things were released because they were embarrassing, nothing more. And while I'm certainly glad that Assange is able to stroke his ego by thumbing his nose in Uncle Sam's face, I don't actually hate my country; I want it to be better.

Amadou 13y ago
I have to strongly disagree. Wikileaks has released minutiae about other countries as well. It isn't only about showing up hypocrisy from the US, it is about lifting the veil of secrecy that all governments misuse whether it is hiding big stories or trivial ones. Saying that wikileaks has an agenda to oppose the US is basically confirmation bias. Leaks about the US get news coverage in the US. Just for starters, look at the 2 million emails from Syria - clearly most of those are about trivial matters too, but most people in the US haven't even heard about the release at all.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > I have to strongly disagree. Wikileaks has released minutiae about other countries as well. Doing bad things to other countries (again, because of what they are instead of what they've done) doesn't make me feel better about when it's done to mine. Here's some other countries I don't hate: Russia, China, the U.K., France, South Africa and in fact the list could go on as long as I have time. > Just for starters, look at the 2 million emails from Syria - clearly most of those are about trivial matters too, but most people in the US haven't even heard about the release at all. There's no polite way for me to say this so I'll just spit it out; no one cares about Syrian government emails. That's why no one in the U.S has heard about the release. Gossip is as destructive for international politics as it is for small towns. If there's big news to release then by all means go and do so, but governments should be able to maintain diaries too.
  - Amadou 13y ago
    I'm having a hard time understanding your point of view, it seems to have no unifying principle. But if I take your last sentence as what you really believe then the obvious response is that once governments can be relied on to not abuse their ability to keep secrets then they will have earned the privilege to maintain their diaries in secret.
    - mpyne 13y ago
      And anarcho-libertarian types will claim that a government can never be relied on to do that, which is just as well as saying again that the government could not be allowed to keep secrets.
      - Amadou 13y ago
        Since I'm not an anarcho-libertarian type and you clearly are not, I don't think what they might hypothetically say matters all that much.
rdl 13y ago
While I agree with you, regardless of how you feel about the US, it's undeniable that the publication of the war logs/cables essentially ramped up opposition to wikileaks and, combined with internal strife, seriously impaired the ability of the organization to continue releasing new stuff. So it's cool that other groups are now taking over that mission.

by mpyne 13y ago

Amadou 13y ago

I have to strongly disagree. Wikileaks has released minutiae about other countries as well. It isn't only about showing up hypocrisy from the US, it is about lifting the veil of secrecy that all governments misuse whether it is hiding big stories or trivial ones. Saying that wikileaks has an agenda to oppose the US is basically confirmation bias. Leaks about the US get news coverage in the US. Just for starters, look at the 2 million emails from Syria - clearly most of those are about trivial matters too, but most people in the US haven't even heard about the release at all.

mpyne 13y ago
> I have to strongly disagree. Wikileaks has released minutiae about other countries as well. Doing bad things to other countries (again, because of what they are instead of what they've done) doesn't make me feel better about when it's done to mine. Here's some other countries I don't hate: Russia, China, the U.K., France, South Africa and in fact the list could go on as long as I have time. > Just for starters, look at the 2 million emails from Syria - clearly most of those are about trivial matters too, but most people in the US haven't even heard about the release at all. There's no polite way for me to say this so I'll just spit it out; no one cares about Syrian government emails. That's why no one in the U.S has heard about the release. Gossip is as destructive for international politics as it is for small towns. If there's big news to release then by all means go and do so, but governments should be able to maintain diaries too.
- Amadou 13y ago
  I'm having a hard time understanding your point of view, it seems to have no unifying principle. But if I take your last sentence as what you really believe then the obvious response is that once governments can be relied on to not abuse their ability to keep secrets then they will have earned the privilege to maintain their diaries in secret.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    And anarcho-libertarian types will claim that a government can never be relied on to do that, which is just as well as saying again that the government could not be allowed to keep secrets.
    - Amadou 13y ago
      Since I'm not an anarcho-libertarian type and you clearly are not, I don't think what they might hypothetically say matters all that much.

rdl 13y ago

While I agree with you, regardless of how you feel about the US, it's undeniable that the publication of the war logs/cables essentially ramped up opposition to wikileaks and, combined with internal strife, seriously impaired the ability of the organization to continue releasing new stuff. So it's cool that other groups are now taking over that mission.