4 ms·

So the mic in your phone can be used as a bug when you arent using it?

by PencilAndPaper 13y ago

gambiting 13y ago
Yes. On some phones even when its off.
- kllrnohj 13y ago
  If the phone is off it cannot be remotely accessed, and thus cannot be used as a remote listening device.
  - TylerE 13y ago
    How do you know if it's really off? Just because the leds arne't lit and the screen is off is no guarantee.
    - kllrnohj 13y ago
      They sell these devices for $20 or so called "multimeters" that let you measure this. Also there's the pretty fucking obvious fact that the battery suddenly lasts for months instead of hours.
      - gambiting 13y ago
        Again, a $20 multimeter wouldn't measure shit with a draw that small. And there are devices which use GSM radios for communication and last half a year on a 9V battery, for remote monitoring stations and such. So a virus implanted in a bootloader could very easily keep everything off and stay ready to spy. Your inability to accept this as a technical possibility is very childish.
  - tghw 13y ago
    Are you sure it's off?
  - methehack 13y ago
    The article linked to above, plus several other sources I've come across suggest you are incorrect. I don't pretend to understand it, but there is some technique that makes your phone into a remote listening device even when off. The article above says "[US District Judge Lewis] Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique 'functioned whether the phone was powered on or off.'" Also -- that's the whole point -- otherwise Snowden would just say "Please turn your phones off".
    - kllrnohj 13y ago
      > The article linked to above, plus several other sources I've come across suggest you are incorrect. They are wrong. Which is not unusual, news outlets get technical information wrong all the bloody time. Hell, they get things wrong more often than they get them right. > I don't pretend to understand it, but there is some technique that makes your phone into a remote listening device even when off. Nope. > Also -- that's the whole point -- otherwise Snowden would just say "Please turn your phones off". Snowden is a dramatic source, not an accurate one. I'm glad he blew the whistle because it brings the NSA into the media's focus, but technical accuracy is clearly not his strong suit.
      - methehack 13y ago
        I'd love to see a definitive source one way or the other... But your point seems to be "all sources are wrong" so I'm not sure what to do with that. I certainly have no reason to believe some guy on hackernews (i.e., you) more than the findings of a federal judge and his staff. So, at this point, I have something like "accepted opinion" and "doubt" -- i.e., unless you can cite or explain something. In this case, the ideal source would explain why this is so frequently misreported, not simply assert that it is always misreported. Also, it would explain why it was an impossibility.
        kllrnohj 13y ago
        Definitive source is easy as shit - power off your phone, then see if it's drawing any power from the battery. If it's not, then it can't be remotely activated. Period, end of story. That's just flat out not possible. If we had the technology to receive wireless signals without using any power our cell phones would have batteries that last for weeks instead of a day.
  - gambiting 13y ago
    There's a thing called a bootloader , and if something is implanted there the entire phone can be off, except for the radio "checking in" every few minutes or so. And you are very,very naive if you think you can measure a 0.1A draw using a $20 multimeter, good luck with that.
zalew 13y ago
yes http://news.cnet.com/FBI-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/FBI-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdroppin... http://hackaday.com/2009/09/14/disabling-your-cell-phones-mic-for-security/ http://hackaday.com/2009/09/14/disabling-your-cell-phones-mi...
- finnw 13y ago
  Has anyone ever actually found NSA spyware on a feature phone?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
kllrnohj 13y ago
Nope
- warmwaffles 13y ago
  source?
  - kllrnohj 13y ago
    source.android.com

So the mic in your phone can be used as a bug when you arent using it?

gambiting 13y ago

Yes. On some phones even when its off.

kllrnohj 13y ago
If the phone is off it cannot be remotely accessed, and thus cannot be used as a remote listening device.
- TylerE 13y ago
  How do you know if it's really off? Just because the leds arne't lit and the screen is off is no guarantee.
  - kllrnohj 13y ago
    They sell these devices for $20 or so called "multimeters" that let you measure this. Also there's the pretty fucking obvious fact that the battery suddenly lasts for months instead of hours.
    - gambiting 13y ago
      Again, a $20 multimeter wouldn't measure shit with a draw that small. And there are devices which use GSM radios for communication and last half a year on a 9V battery, for remote monitoring stations and such. So a virus implanted in a bootloader could very easily keep everything off and stay ready to spy. Your inability to accept this as a technical possibility is very childish.
- tghw 13y ago
  Are you sure it's off?
- methehack 13y ago
  The article linked to above, plus several other sources I've come across suggest you are incorrect. I don't pretend to understand it, but there is some technique that makes your phone into a remote listening device even when off. The article above says "[US District Judge Lewis] Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique 'functioned whether the phone was powered on or off.'" Also -- that's the whole point -- otherwise Snowden would just say "Please turn your phones off".
  - kllrnohj 13y ago
    > The article linked to above, plus several other sources I've come across suggest you are incorrect. They are wrong. Which is not unusual, news outlets get technical information wrong all the bloody time. Hell, they get things wrong more often than they get them right. > I don't pretend to understand it, but there is some technique that makes your phone into a remote listening device even when off. Nope. > Also -- that's the whole point -- otherwise Snowden would just say "Please turn your phones off". Snowden is a dramatic source, not an accurate one. I'm glad he blew the whistle because it brings the NSA into the media's focus, but technical accuracy is clearly not his strong suit.
    - methehack 13y ago
      I'd love to see a definitive source one way or the other... But your point seems to be "all sources are wrong" so I'm not sure what to do with that. I certainly have no reason to believe some guy on hackernews (i.e., you) more than the findings of a federal judge and his staff. So, at this point, I have something like "accepted opinion" and "doubt" -- i.e., unless you can cite or explain something. In this case, the ideal source would explain why this is so frequently misreported, not simply assert that it is always misreported. Also, it would explain why it was an impossibility.
      - kllrnohj 13y ago
        Definitive source is easy as shit - power off your phone, then see if it's drawing any power from the battery. If it's not, then it can't be remotely activated. Period, end of story. That's just flat out not possible. If we had the technology to receive wireless signals without using any power our cell phones would have batteries that last for weeks instead of a day.
- gambiting 13y ago
  There's a thing called a bootloader , and if something is implanted there the entire phone can be off, except for the radio "checking in" every few minutes or so. And you are very,very naive if you think you can measure a 0.1A draw using a $20 multimeter, good luck with that.

zalew 13y ago

yes http://news.cnet.com/FBI-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/FBI-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdroppin... http://hackaday.com/2009/09/14/disabling-your-cell-phones-mic-for-security/ http://hackaday.com/2009/09/14/disabling-your-cell-phones-mi...

finnw 13y ago
Has anyone ever actually found NSA spyware on a feature phone?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

kllrnohj 13y ago

Nope

warmwaffles 13y ago
source?
- kllrnohj 13y ago
  source.android.com