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>Imagine empowering Nixon with the abilities of today's intelligence community. Imagine the President as an irrelevant figurehead doing the bidding of the NSA/

>Imagine empowering Nixon with the abilities of today's intelligence community. Imagine the President as an irrelevant figurehead doing the bidding of the NSA/Military.

gph 13y ago
I think people overlook this because it seems too far-fetched. But I don't think it's so outrageous that it shouldn't be considered. And whether the system is being used for these purposes or not, the fact that a system exists that could is a very dangerous situation.
- pradocchia 13y ago
  Insofar as national policy is overdetermined, who the president happens to be for a given term is irrelevant. So the question becomes, is the surveillance state overdetermined? There's certainly a strong collation behind it--the money alone makes it so. I suspect the president has very little freedom in these matters. Yet I wonder who's on the other side. Have all the major players just said, "sure, that works for me?" Surely someone powerful feels the risk. Remember that it wasn't the Washington Post that drove Nixon's disgrace, it was the FBI using the Post as an instrument. It was government feuding, and I wonder if this latest episode is another instance of feuding. Maybe I hope it is.
jlgreco 13y ago
Imagine another J. Edgar Hoover.
selimthegrim 13y ago
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dummies/5c1648202163034465700692fe282ea99dae9038/ https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dum... https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dummies-ii/27b4dbcea7b9fed7545edb8ccf6881111d3de2ec/ https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dum...
mindcrime 13y ago
Imagine the President as an irrelevant figurehead doing the bidding of the NSA/Military. Or the bidding of J. Edgar Hoover.
monorail 13y ago
Imagining is fun because it doesn't require facts or logic. Pasting Nixon on to the current situation, while mildly amusing, does not clarify what is actually occuring. It is still far from clear. Is there a solid piece of evidence that Snowden is holding back for dramatic effect? Not releasing it, if he has it, lets the story become a mockery of itself because without any facts all you are left with is your imagination.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Okay then, hypothesize. Use J. Edna Hoover as a template if you think there's no precedent.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
That's not even entirely relevant. Others have pointed to the example of J. Edgar Hoover, which is highly relevant. Imagine not a figurehead, or an evil president, imagine merely an ambitious civil functionary who abuses and misuses his secret powers outside of any oversight.

>Imagine empowering Nixon with the abilities of today's intelligence community. Imagine the President as an irrelevant figurehead doing the bidding of the NSA/Military.

gph 13y ago

I think people overlook this because it seems too far-fetched. But I don't think it's so outrageous that it shouldn't be considered. And whether the system is being used for these purposes or not, the fact that a system exists that could is a very dangerous situation.

pradocchia 13y ago
Insofar as national policy is overdetermined, who the president happens to be for a given term is irrelevant. So the question becomes, is the surveillance state overdetermined? There's certainly a strong collation behind it--the money alone makes it so. I suspect the president has very little freedom in these matters. Yet I wonder who's on the other side. Have all the major players just said, "sure, that works for me?" Surely someone powerful feels the risk. Remember that it wasn't the Washington Post that drove Nixon's disgrace, it was the FBI using the Post as an instrument. It was government feuding, and I wonder if this latest episode is another instance of feuding. Maybe I hope it is.

jlgreco 13y ago

Imagine another J. Edgar Hoover.

selimthegrim 13y ago

https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dummies/5c1648202163034465700692fe282ea99dae9038/ https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dum... https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dummies-ii/27b4dbcea7b9fed7545edb8ccf6881111d3de2ec/ https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dum...

mindcrime 13y ago

Imagine the President as an irrelevant figurehead doing the bidding of the NSA/Military. Or the bidding of J. Edgar Hoover.

monorail 13y ago

Imagining is fun because it doesn't require facts or logic. Pasting Nixon on to the current situation, while mildly amusing, does not clarify what is actually occuring. It is still far from clear. Is there a solid piece of evidence that Snowden is holding back for dramatic effect? Not releasing it, if he has it, lets the story become a mockery of itself because without any facts all you are left with is your imagination.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Okay then, hypothesize. Use J. Edna Hoover as a template if you think there's no precedent.

InclinedPlane 13y ago

That's not even entirely relevant. Others have pointed to the example of J. Edgar Hoover, which is highly relevant. Imagine not a figurehead, or an evil president, imagine merely an ambitious civil functionary who abuses and misuses his secret powers outside of any oversight.