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Lack of an extradition treaty does not prevent Russia from handing Snowden over, or expelling him; it would merely obligate them to.

by codex 13y ago

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Lack of an extradition treaty does not prevent Russia from handing Snowden over, or expelling him; it would merely obligate them to. If Russia has a constitutional government with limited powers (which, I think, on paper it does, whatever it may otherwise do in practice), not having a legal basis to detain and hand him over may, legally at least, prevent them from detaining him and handing him over.
- mpyne 13y ago
  Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Russia couldn't detain him for questioning, let him out of the car, now he's touched the native soil and can be arrested on immigration charges and nicely deported to the U.S. embassy. Really seems like one of things where "if there's a will, there's a way".
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Russia couldn't detain him for questioning, let him out of the car, now he's touched the native soil and can be arrested on immigration charges and nicely deported to the U.S. embassy. It wouldn't surprise me if, on paper at least, being compelled by the government to pass out of the area not requiring a visa was not an immigration offense. It also isn't surprising to me that the government of a sovereign state isn't particularly interested in going out of their way to game their own legal systems to make the government of a geopolitical rival who is publicly threatening them look less impotent and ineffectual.
    - mpyne 13y ago
      I'm just saying, nothing would really surprise me in international diplomacy anymore.
    - narcissus 13y ago
      "It wouldn't surprise me if, on paper at least, being compelled by the government to pass out of the area not requiring a visa was not an immigration offense." So I'm not entirely sure how this squares up with my anecdote, but flying from Sydney, Australia to Vancouver, Canada (did, at some point) require stopping in Honolulu to refuel and take on passengers. At that point in the journey, passengers were (are?) required to get off the plane and pass through US immigration to continue their flight on to Canada. I know of at least one passenger that was refused passage through US immigration at that point (even though she was forced to go through it and her final destination was not the US) and so she was not allowed to continue. Like I say, I don't really know how that quite squares up with your comment, but I thought it was "interestingly similar", maybe?
      - pfortuny 13y ago
        That just shows how scared are the US. When I was in London, 2002, a Chinese national living there wanted to attend a solidarity camp in El Salvador, in august 2002, organized by the hall of residence I was living in. The flight had a single scale in the US (probably Florida but who knows, it was not a 'stay', just a scale). BOWM: travel forbidden. Uhu? What? Just that. NO WAY you are going to fly to El Salvador via the US. Mmmhh I call that being terrorized.
- codex 13y ago
  What's so fascinating about this, to me, is that Snowden is in the airport without a Russian visa. So is he in Russia, or not? Do the laws of Russia apply within the airport, or not? Whose laws do apply? What happens if you commit a crime in the airport? And if someone is stuck in the airport, with no way to get in or out (a.k.a. 'The Terminal'), or who are unwilling to leave, do they just stay there forever? Are there hundreds or thousands of refugees in the Moscow airport as we speak, unwilling to leave, with no way for Russia to get rid of them? Are there a bunch of terrorists hanging out in the airport, snubbing their noses at the countries that want them?

Lack of an extradition treaty does not prevent Russia from handing Snowden over, or expelling him; it would merely obligate them to.

by codex 13y ago

Lack of an extradition treaty does not prevent Russia from handing Snowden over, or expelling him; it would merely obligate them to.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> Lack of an extradition treaty does not prevent Russia from handing Snowden over, or expelling him; it would merely obligate them to. If Russia has a constitutional government with limited powers (which, I think, on paper it does, whatever it may otherwise do in practice), not having a legal basis to detain and hand him over may, legally at least, prevent them from detaining him and handing him over.

mpyne 13y ago
Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Russia couldn't detain him for questioning, let him out of the car, now he's touched the native soil and can be arrested on immigration charges and nicely deported to the U.S. embassy. Really seems like one of things where "if there's a will, there's a way".
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Russia couldn't detain him for questioning, let him out of the car, now he's touched the native soil and can be arrested on immigration charges and nicely deported to the U.S. embassy. It wouldn't surprise me if, on paper at least, being compelled by the government to pass out of the area not requiring a visa was not an immigration offense. It also isn't surprising to me that the government of a sovereign state isn't particularly interested in going out of their way to game their own legal systems to make the government of a geopolitical rival who is publicly threatening them look less impotent and ineffectual.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    I'm just saying, nothing would really surprise me in international diplomacy anymore.
  - narcissus 13y ago
    "It wouldn't surprise me if, on paper at least, being compelled by the government to pass out of the area not requiring a visa was not an immigration offense." So I'm not entirely sure how this squares up with my anecdote, but flying from Sydney, Australia to Vancouver, Canada (did, at some point) require stopping in Honolulu to refuel and take on passengers. At that point in the journey, passengers were (are?) required to get off the plane and pass through US immigration to continue their flight on to Canada. I know of at least one passenger that was refused passage through US immigration at that point (even though she was forced to go through it and her final destination was not the US) and so she was not allowed to continue. Like I say, I don't really know how that quite squares up with your comment, but I thought it was "interestingly similar", maybe?
    - pfortuny 13y ago
      That just shows how scared are the US. When I was in London, 2002, a Chinese national living there wanted to attend a solidarity camp in El Salvador, in august 2002, organized by the hall of residence I was living in. The flight had a single scale in the US (probably Florida but who knows, it was not a 'stay', just a scale). BOWM: travel forbidden. Uhu? What? Just that. NO WAY you are going to fly to El Salvador via the US. Mmmhh I call that being terrorized.
codex 13y ago
What's so fascinating about this, to me, is that Snowden is in the airport without a Russian visa. So is he in Russia, or not? Do the laws of Russia apply within the airport, or not? Whose laws do apply? What happens if you commit a crime in the airport? And if someone is stuck in the airport, with no way to get in or out (a.k.a. 'The Terminal'), or who are unwilling to leave, do they just stay there forever? Are there hundreds or thousands of refugees in the Moscow airport as we speak, unwilling to leave, with no way for Russia to get rid of them? Are there a bunch of terrorists hanging out in the airport, snubbing their noses at the countries that want them?