6 ms·

Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. I understand th

Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. I understand the public at large will not feel this way, and will simply pass to the next distraction shortly, but this lack of faith I've built up, is going to stay with me for a while. So instead of a happy Canadian tuning in to your elections and being extremely excited about the future like I was in 2008, I truly believe that your entire system is completely hopeless. No true change can come out of it.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
epistasis 13y ago
As a site filled with entrepeneurs (should that be past tense these days?), I would hope HN readers realize how much this ordeal is damaging the prospects of us US-based entrepeneurs to expand to foreign markets, particularly if our business deals with anything that people don't want in random government officials' hands.
- sigkill 13y ago
  My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country. This is not a slander, but they genuinely think that since they're Americans, they need to know only about their country. I do not blame them because when I was there I noticed that all news channels focused only on news in America. There wasn't even a half hour of 'world news' at anytime one would be free to watch the news. This is quite sad because the TV was meant as a way to inform the common people of things happening far away. Granted, the present generation can hop on to websites and read stuff there but honestly, the generation that actually votes and practically decides who's in the government are the ones who're not getting broad exposure to all news.
  - eru 13y ago
    Our unAmerican perception is somewhat biased by how much we know about the US. Just because people from country A know a lot more about the US than then US people know about them, doesn't mean that people from country A are any more knowledgeable about country B than the US Americans are. But, of course, we from A still love to laugh about the dumb Americans.
  - Kurtz79 13y ago
    "My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country" My interaction with my fellow non-American countrymen is that many of them not only are not interested in what happens outside their country, but also what happens INSIDE, unless this somewhat affects them directly (say, taxes rise). Of course an equal number of them are knowledgeble and really concerned about what happens in our country, and the rest of the world. And probably there are hundreds of variations beetween these two extremes. My hunch is that it's the same more or less everywhere around the world, US included. It's just naive to try to condense millions of people in a single (or two, or three) stereotype.
  - PakG1 13y ago
    My friend who studied in the US said that Americans just in general have a view that they are different and therefore uniquely special. If you have that type of worldview, I imagine it's difficult to really think of the outside world much; perhaps it's even unnatural. edit: The thought that prompted this whole comment, which I forgot to write. 9/11 happened when he was studying at university. He said there was a big shock among all the students with whom he studied, and among the citizens in general. He said up to that point, Americans had felt that they were untouchable, and this event proved otherwise, really shaking their worldview. I found it most interesting that he said that Americans seemed to think they were untouchable in the first place. There is actually a term for how Americans view their status, American Exceptionalism (the term appears to have evolved over the years): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism This attitude is easily seen when they call their baseball championship the World Series, when the Miami Heat refer to themselves as basketball's World Champions, etc. In such an saturated environment, I imagine it becomes so self-reinforcing that you cannot blame some (but not all) of American citizens for just thinking the same way.
- chj 13y ago
  Exactly. If your government can look into a foreigner's private data without any notice to the holder, then good luck and good bye.
TheSpiceIsLife 13y ago
As a non-US citizen - I live in Adelaide, South Australia, it is entertaining watching the US Government's reaction, stamping it's feet and calling names like a child, like they think anyone actually believes they matter any more. I know that's a strong statement, and it's directly entirely at the US Gov. not at it's people. The Bush and Obama administrations have literally made the US the laughing stock of the world, and although it really is rather entertaining, reflectively, this is the world I have grown up in - I'm 32, and I guess it's sad, upon consideration, that I've never known an "America" that was a nation everyone looked up to. I'm imagining the governments of China and Russia, and any other country along the way, or the destination, just sitting around going "Huh! Hahahahahaha! Pfffffff!" and "Oh look, there goes Snowden, should we capture him, naaaaah, watching the US squirm and stamp it's feet like a child is way too entertaining". My opinion and observations of the US Gov. over the past couple decades, and my reading of it's history, is pretty bleak, it's as though the only difference between US, China, Russia, India, South Africa, etc etc, is that all the other governments are overtly corrupt. Or, that was a difference. Another interesting perspective on the Global Diplomatic Climate is that the USA literally is a child, it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. Russia, China, India, these peoples have persisted for millennia. I guess if you want to be the best in the world, you should at least do what the best-in-the-world are doing, the USA doesn't rank Number 1 in any of the areas that matter to people as human beings. I think what we'll be witnessing over the next couple of decades is the US being put in its rightful place: at the table, not at the head of it - I mean, it already is that way, with China and Russia constantly vetoing US desires at the UN Security Council, and then the US Military just doing it anyway, but I believe increasingly the rest of the world will not tolerate what is perceived to be the USs 'bullying'.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- eru 13y ago
  > [..] it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. That doesn't matter too much. Humans live for much shorter times, and their can learn not only from their own compatriots. The US's current continuity of government is actually pretty old at 237 years. Russia, China and India's current incarnations are much younger. And especially India was almost never a unified country before the British came along.
cema 13y ago
Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. Great! That is a step in the right direction. Distrusting the government is a great American tradition. Even the founding father did not, in a sense, have too much faith in the governmental institutions and tried to set up a system in which the latter could do less damage. Success is partial.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

epistasis 13y ago

As a site filled with entrepeneurs (should that be past tense these days?), I would hope HN readers realize how much this ordeal is damaging the prospects of us US-based entrepeneurs to expand to foreign markets, particularly if our business deals with anything that people don't want in random government officials' hands.

sigkill 13y ago
My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country. This is not a slander, but they genuinely think that since they're Americans, they need to know only about their country. I do not blame them because when I was there I noticed that all news channels focused only on news in America. There wasn't even a half hour of 'world news' at anytime one would be free to watch the news. This is quite sad because the TV was meant as a way to inform the common people of things happening far away. Granted, the present generation can hop on to websites and read stuff there but honestly, the generation that actually votes and practically decides who's in the government are the ones who're not getting broad exposure to all news.
- eru 13y ago
  Our unAmerican perception is somewhat biased by how much we know about the US. Just because people from country A know a lot more about the US than then US people know about them, doesn't mean that people from country A are any more knowledgeable about country B than the US Americans are. But, of course, we from A still love to laugh about the dumb Americans.
- Kurtz79 13y ago
  "My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country" My interaction with my fellow non-American countrymen is that many of them not only are not interested in what happens outside their country, but also what happens INSIDE, unless this somewhat affects them directly (say, taxes rise). Of course an equal number of them are knowledgeble and really concerned about what happens in our country, and the rest of the world. And probably there are hundreds of variations beetween these two extremes. My hunch is that it's the same more or less everywhere around the world, US included. It's just naive to try to condense millions of people in a single (or two, or three) stereotype.
- PakG1 13y ago
  My friend who studied in the US said that Americans just in general have a view that they are different and therefore uniquely special. If you have that type of worldview, I imagine it's difficult to really think of the outside world much; perhaps it's even unnatural. edit: The thought that prompted this whole comment, which I forgot to write. 9/11 happened when he was studying at university. He said there was a big shock among all the students with whom he studied, and among the citizens in general. He said up to that point, Americans had felt that they were untouchable, and this event proved otherwise, really shaking their worldview. I found it most interesting that he said that Americans seemed to think they were untouchable in the first place. There is actually a term for how Americans view their status, American Exceptionalism (the term appears to have evolved over the years): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism This attitude is easily seen when they call their baseball championship the World Series, when the Miami Heat refer to themselves as basketball's World Champions, etc. In such an saturated environment, I imagine it becomes so self-reinforcing that you cannot blame some (but not all) of American citizens for just thinking the same way.
chj 13y ago
Exactly. If your government can look into a foreigner's private data without any notice to the holder, then good luck and good bye.

TheSpiceIsLife 13y ago

As a non-US citizen - I live in Adelaide, South Australia, it is entertaining watching the US Government's reaction, stamping it's feet and calling names like a child, like they think anyone actually believes they matter any more. I know that's a strong statement, and it's directly entirely at the US Gov. not at it's people. The Bush and Obama administrations have literally made the US the laughing stock of the world, and although it really is rather entertaining, reflectively, this is the world I have grown up in - I'm 32, and I guess it's sad, upon consideration, that I've never known an "America" that was a nation everyone looked up to. I'm imagining the governments of China and Russia, and any other country along the way, or the destination, just sitting around going "Huh! Hahahahahaha! Pfffffff!" and "Oh look, there goes Snowden, should we capture him, naaaaah, watching the US squirm and stamp it's feet like a child is way too entertaining". My opinion and observations of the US Gov. over the past couple decades, and my reading of it's history, is pretty bleak, it's as though the only difference between US, China, Russia, India, South Africa, etc etc, is that all the other governments are overtly corrupt. Or, that was a difference. Another interesting perspective on the Global Diplomatic Climate is that the USA literally is a child, it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. Russia, China, India, these peoples have persisted for millennia. I guess if you want to be the best in the world, you should at least do what the best-in-the-world are doing, the USA doesn't rank Number 1 in any of the areas that matter to people as human beings. I think what we'll be witnessing over the next couple of decades is the US being put in its rightful place: at the table, not at the head of it - I mean, it already is that way, with China and Russia constantly vetoing US desires at the UN Security Council, and then the US Military just doing it anyway, but I believe increasingly the rest of the world will not tolerate what is perceived to be the USs 'bullying'.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
eru 13y ago
> [..] it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. That doesn't matter too much. Humans live for much shorter times, and their can learn not only from their own compatriots. The US's current continuity of government is actually pretty old at 237 years. Russia, China and India's current incarnations are much younger. And especially India was almost never a unified country before the British came along.

cema 13y ago

Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. Great! That is a step in the right direction. Distrusting the government is a great American tradition. Even the founding father did not, in a sense, have too much faith in the governmental institutions and tried to set up a system in which the latter could do less damage. Success is partial.