11 ms·

Give me a break. You think anyone is going to care next week when the attention of the media will shift, as it always does, to whatever else is most eyeball bai

by Sven7 13y ago

Give me a break. You think anyone is going to care next week when the attention of the media will shift, as it always does, to whatever else is most eyeball baiting, elsewhere in the world. The baseline strategy has been more or less the same. Hide Obama from the press. Send out robotic talking heads to spew about anything remotely relevant to the issue at hand. And wait for the press to get distracted by something else. I am racking my brain to come up with an incident that was under the media spotlight that actually pushed the Govt. to act.

tokenizer 13y ago
Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. I understand the public at large will not feel this way, and will simply pass to the next distraction shortly, but this lack of faith I've built up, is going to stay with me for a while. So instead of a happy Canadian tuning in to your elections and being extremely excited about the future like I was in 2008, I truly believe that your entire system is completely hopeless. No true change can come out of it.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- epistasis 13y ago
  As a site filled with entrepeneurs (should that be past tense these days?), I would hope HN readers realize how much this ordeal is damaging the prospects of us US-based entrepeneurs to expand to foreign markets, particularly if our business deals with anything that people don't want in random government officials' hands.
  - sigkill 13y ago
    My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country. This is not a slander, but they genuinely think that since they're Americans, they need to know only about their country. I do not blame them because when I was there I noticed that all news channels focused only on news in America. There wasn't even a half hour of 'world news' at anytime one would be free to watch the news. This is quite sad because the TV was meant as a way to inform the common people of things happening far away. Granted, the present generation can hop on to websites and read stuff there but honestly, the generation that actually votes and practically decides who's in the government are the ones who're not getting broad exposure to all news.
    - eru 13y ago
      Our unAmerican perception is somewhat biased by how much we know about the US. Just because people from country A know a lot more about the US than then US people know about them, doesn't mean that people from country A are any more knowledgeable about country B than the US Americans are. But, of course, we from A still love to laugh about the dumb Americans.
    - Kurtz79 13y ago
      "My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country" My interaction with my fellow non-American countrymen is that many of them not only are not interested in what happens outside their country, but also what happens INSIDE, unless this somewhat affects them directly (say, taxes rise). Of course an equal number of them are knowledgeble and really concerned about what happens in our country, and the rest of the world. And probably there are hundreds of variations beetween these two extremes. My hunch is that it's the same more or less everywhere around the world, US included. It's just naive to try to condense millions of people in a single (or two, or three) stereotype.
    - PakG1 13y ago
      My friend who studied in the US said that Americans just in general have a view that they are different and therefore uniquely special. If you have that type of worldview, I imagine it's difficult to really think of the outside world much; perhaps it's even unnatural. edit: The thought that prompted this whole comment, which I forgot to write. 9/11 happened when he was studying at university. He said there was a big shock among all the students with whom he studied, and among the citizens in general. He said up to that point, Americans had felt that they were untouchable, and this event proved otherwise, really shaking their worldview. I found it most interesting that he said that Americans seemed to think they were untouchable in the first place. There is actually a term for how Americans view their status, American Exceptionalism (the term appears to have evolved over the years): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism This attitude is easily seen when they call their baseball championship the World Series, when the Miami Heat refer to themselves as basketball's World Champions, etc. In such an saturated environment, I imagine it becomes so self-reinforcing that you cannot blame some (but not all) of American citizens for just thinking the same way.
  - chj 13y ago
    Exactly. If your government can look into a foreigner's private data without any notice to the holder, then good luck and good bye.
- TheSpiceIsLife 13y ago
  As a non-US citizen - I live in Adelaide, South Australia, it is entertaining watching the US Government's reaction, stamping it's feet and calling names like a child, like they think anyone actually believes they matter any more. I know that's a strong statement, and it's directly entirely at the US Gov. not at it's people. The Bush and Obama administrations have literally made the US the laughing stock of the world, and although it really is rather entertaining, reflectively, this is the world I have grown up in - I'm 32, and I guess it's sad, upon consideration, that I've never known an "America" that was a nation everyone looked up to. I'm imagining the governments of China and Russia, and any other country along the way, or the destination, just sitting around going "Huh! Hahahahahaha! Pfffffff!" and "Oh look, there goes Snowden, should we capture him, naaaaah, watching the US squirm and stamp it's feet like a child is way too entertaining". My opinion and observations of the US Gov. over the past couple decades, and my reading of it's history, is pretty bleak, it's as though the only difference between US, China, Russia, India, South Africa, etc etc, is that all the other governments are overtly corrupt. Or, that was a difference. Another interesting perspective on the Global Diplomatic Climate is that the USA literally is a child, it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. Russia, China, India, these peoples have persisted for millennia. I guess if you want to be the best in the world, you should at least do what the best-in-the-world are doing, the USA doesn't rank Number 1 in any of the areas that matter to people as human beings. I think what we'll be witnessing over the next couple of decades is the US being put in its rightful place: at the table, not at the head of it - I mean, it already is that way, with China and Russia constantly vetoing US desires at the UN Security Council, and then the US Military just doing it anyway, but I believe increasingly the rest of the world will not tolerate what is perceived to be the USs 'bullying'.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - eru 13y ago
    > [..] it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. That doesn't matter too much. Humans live for much shorter times, and their can learn not only from their own compatriots. The US's current continuity of government is actually pretty old at 237 years. Russia, China and India's current incarnations are much younger. And especially India was almost never a unified country before the British came along.
- cema 13y ago
  Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. Great! That is a step in the right direction. Distrusting the government is a great American tradition. Even the founding father did not, in a sense, have too much faith in the governmental institutions and tried to set up a system in which the latter could do less damage. Success is partial.
narag 13y ago
Send out robotic talking heads to spew about anything remotely relevant to the issue at hand. IIRC Kerry was a presidential candidate, one of Reddit's favourites (meaning the most liberal of dems), now the Secretary of State, replacing Hillary Clinton. I'd say he's in a good position for next primaries. So not exactly "robotic talking head", or I wish he wouldn't be. It's specially disappointing hearing that from him.
- andrewl-hn 13y ago
  Since you have 2 identical parties that enact the same policies and follow the same course for many years I see no reason for anyone on this planet (both inside the US and outside) to actually care about the outcome of any future primaries or elections in the US.
  - narag 13y ago
    Well, I'm not from the USA (actually I've never been there) and I care. The only way this terrible situation gets fixed is that the USA, maybe with some "help" from outside, fixes it. Otherwise, we're screwed... both inside the US and outside.
Ultron 13y ago
Obama is also an incredibly skilled actor and manipulator. You have no idea. Check out this 67 page examination of Obama's use of covert hypnosis techniques during his 2007/2008 election campaign [PDF]: http://tinyurl.com/5zyxsy http://tinyurl.com/5zyxsy Sounds pretty far fetched right? Obama would never do such a thing. Besides, the American people would never fall for that...
- eru 13y ago
  No URL shorteners on HN please. They obscure were the URL leads to.
  - Ultron 13y ago
    Do a Duck Duck Go search for it and you'll find it.
- michas 13y ago
  Obama is manipulator? Compared to Putin he is just lost child. He was f*cked in his ass by Russia more times that I can count. Obama is incredibly naive, his world-view makes him vulnerable to manipulations of all kinds. Those techniques you refer to were just invention of his staff, he did all of this without even understanding what he is doing.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

by Sven7 13y ago

tokenizer 13y ago

Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. I understand the public at large will not feel this way, and will simply pass to the next distraction shortly, but this lack of faith I've built up, is going to stay with me for a while. So instead of a happy Canadian tuning in to your elections and being extremely excited about the future like I was in 2008, I truly believe that your entire system is completely hopeless. No true change can come out of it.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
epistasis 13y ago
As a site filled with entrepeneurs (should that be past tense these days?), I would hope HN readers realize how much this ordeal is damaging the prospects of us US-based entrepeneurs to expand to foreign markets, particularly if our business deals with anything that people don't want in random government officials' hands.
- sigkill 13y ago
  My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country. This is not a slander, but they genuinely think that since they're Americans, they need to know only about their country. I do not blame them because when I was there I noticed that all news channels focused only on news in America. There wasn't even a half hour of 'world news' at anytime one would be free to watch the news. This is quite sad because the TV was meant as a way to inform the common people of things happening far away. Granted, the present generation can hop on to websites and read stuff there but honestly, the generation that actually votes and practically decides who's in the government are the ones who're not getting broad exposure to all news.
  - eru 13y ago
    Our unAmerican perception is somewhat biased by how much we know about the US. Just because people from country A know a lot more about the US than then US people know about them, doesn't mean that people from country A are any more knowledgeable about country B than the US Americans are. But, of course, we from A still love to laugh about the dumb Americans.
  - Kurtz79 13y ago
    "My interaction with Americans has not been in a professional setting, but my opinion of them is that they're very unknowledgeable about things happening outside their country" My interaction with my fellow non-American countrymen is that many of them not only are not interested in what happens outside their country, but also what happens INSIDE, unless this somewhat affects them directly (say, taxes rise). Of course an equal number of them are knowledgeble and really concerned about what happens in our country, and the rest of the world. And probably there are hundreds of variations beetween these two extremes. My hunch is that it's the same more or less everywhere around the world, US included. It's just naive to try to condense millions of people in a single (or two, or three) stereotype.
  - PakG1 13y ago
    My friend who studied in the US said that Americans just in general have a view that they are different and therefore uniquely special. If you have that type of worldview, I imagine it's difficult to really think of the outside world much; perhaps it's even unnatural. edit: The thought that prompted this whole comment, which I forgot to write. 9/11 happened when he was studying at university. He said there was a big shock among all the students with whom he studied, and among the citizens in general. He said up to that point, Americans had felt that they were untouchable, and this event proved otherwise, really shaking their worldview. I found it most interesting that he said that Americans seemed to think they were untouchable in the first place. There is actually a term for how Americans view their status, American Exceptionalism (the term appears to have evolved over the years): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism This attitude is easily seen when they call their baseball championship the World Series, when the Miami Heat refer to themselves as basketball's World Champions, etc. In such an saturated environment, I imagine it becomes so self-reinforcing that you cannot blame some (but not all) of American citizens for just thinking the same way.
- chj 13y ago
  Exactly. If your government can look into a foreigner's private data without any notice to the holder, then good luck and good bye.
TheSpiceIsLife 13y ago
As a non-US citizen - I live in Adelaide, South Australia, it is entertaining watching the US Government's reaction, stamping it's feet and calling names like a child, like they think anyone actually believes they matter any more. I know that's a strong statement, and it's directly entirely at the US Gov. not at it's people. The Bush and Obama administrations have literally made the US the laughing stock of the world, and although it really is rather entertaining, reflectively, this is the world I have grown up in - I'm 32, and I guess it's sad, upon consideration, that I've never known an "America" that was a nation everyone looked up to. I'm imagining the governments of China and Russia, and any other country along the way, or the destination, just sitting around going "Huh! Hahahahahaha! Pfffffff!" and "Oh look, there goes Snowden, should we capture him, naaaaah, watching the US squirm and stamp it's feet like a child is way too entertaining". My opinion and observations of the US Gov. over the past couple decades, and my reading of it's history, is pretty bleak, it's as though the only difference between US, China, Russia, India, South Africa, etc etc, is that all the other governments are overtly corrupt. Or, that was a difference. Another interesting perspective on the Global Diplomatic Climate is that the USA literally is a child, it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. Russia, China, India, these peoples have persisted for millennia. I guess if you want to be the best in the world, you should at least do what the best-in-the-world are doing, the USA doesn't rank Number 1 in any of the areas that matter to people as human beings. I think what we'll be witnessing over the next couple of decades is the US being put in its rightful place: at the table, not at the head of it - I mean, it already is that way, with China and Russia constantly vetoing US desires at the UN Security Council, and then the US Military just doing it anyway, but I believe increasingly the rest of the world will not tolerate what is perceived to be the USs 'bullying'.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- eru 13y ago
  > [..] it has existed for only 237 years since the Declaration of Independence. That doesn't matter too much. Humans live for much shorter times, and their can learn not only from their own compatriots. The US's current continuity of government is actually pretty old at 237 years. Russia, China and India's current incarnations are much younger. And especially India was almost never a unified country before the British came along.
cema 13y ago
Well as a foreigner, this whole entire debacle has changed my entire outlook on the US. I don't have faith in your institutions anymore at all. Great! That is a step in the right direction. Distrusting the government is a great American tradition. Even the founding father did not, in a sense, have too much faith in the governmental institutions and tried to set up a system in which the latter could do less damage. Success is partial.

narag 13y ago

Send out robotic talking heads to spew about anything remotely relevant to the issue at hand. IIRC Kerry was a presidential candidate, one of Reddit's favourites (meaning the most liberal of dems), now the Secretary of State, replacing Hillary Clinton. I'd say he's in a good position for next primaries. So not exactly "robotic talking head", or I wish he wouldn't be. It's specially disappointing hearing that from him.

andrewl-hn 13y ago
Since you have 2 identical parties that enact the same policies and follow the same course for many years I see no reason for anyone on this planet (both inside the US and outside) to actually care about the outcome of any future primaries or elections in the US.
- narag 13y ago
  Well, I'm not from the USA (actually I've never been there) and I care. The only way this terrible situation gets fixed is that the USA, maybe with some "help" from outside, fixes it. Otherwise, we're screwed... both inside the US and outside.

Ultron 13y ago

Obama is also an incredibly skilled actor and manipulator. You have no idea. Check out this 67 page examination of Obama's use of covert hypnosis techniques during his 2007/2008 election campaign [PDF]: http://tinyurl.com/5zyxsy http://tinyurl.com/5zyxsy Sounds pretty far fetched right? Obama would never do such a thing. Besides, the American people would never fall for that...

eru 13y ago
No URL shorteners on HN please. They obscure were the URL leads to.
- Ultron 13y ago
  Do a Duck Duck Go search for it and you'll find it.
michas 13y ago
Obama is manipulator? Compared to Putin he is just lost child. He was f*cked in his ass by Russia more times that I can count. Obama is incredibly naive, his world-view makes him vulnerable to manipulations of all kinds. Those techniques you refer to were just invention of his staff, he did all of this without even understanding what he is doing.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]