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First North Korea and Iran make a mockery of the USA in negotiations over their nuclear capabilities. Now it's Hong Kong and Russia. Next in line is Ecuador. Th

by smackay 13y ago

First North Korea and Iran make a mockery of the USA in negotiations over their nuclear capabilities. Now it's Hong Kong and Russia. Next in line is Ecuador. The reservoir of USA authority is evaporating fast with no real way to stop it. As far as the game of diplomacy is concerned the score so far is USA 0 - 4 Rest of the World (all own goals). The consequences of this could be rather serious. A diminished USA is going to leave a vacuum which, regardless of the current behaviour of the USA government, is not going to be a good thing as Russia and China rush in to grab what they can. Writing the history of this and the subsequent events in a hundred years or so will be very interesting.

threeseed 13y ago
You couldn't be more wrong here. North Korea and Iran are both coming to the table with the US/EU as a result of economic isolation and sanctions. It has been without a doubt the best approach short of military involvement (which nobody wants). And this incident isn't going to cause the US one iota of problems in the future. China is actively trying to improve relations and Russia is becoming more and more isolated as we saw at the G8. This situation is going to affect world relations the same way Wikileaks has i.e. not at all.
- rimantas 13y ago
  Don't treay US and EU as the same. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/usa-security-eu-idUSL5N0EN1D420130611 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/usa-security-eu-id...
paganel 13y ago
As an Eastern-European dependent on US "soft power" I really hoped that the last "lost" decade would really change how things work at the State Department and about how the US handles its foreign policy generally speaking. IMHO, the US relies too much on how many carriers they can bring to a "hot point" and how much aerial damage they can cause, sort of forgetting that the Berlin Wall was not teared down using bombs, but because people wanted to purchase Coca Cola and Levi's and to buy print-magazines with real rock-stars on their covers. There's also something to be said about America needing a Nixon-like strategic thinker (his openness to Mao etc) and forgetting about the small battles that don't accomplish anything (we've killed X mujaheddin in the Yemen desert, we've "liberated" a God-forgotten Afghan province etc)
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  > the US relies too much on how many carriers they can bring to a "hot point" and how much aerial damage they can cause, sort of forgetting that the Berlin Wall was not teared down using bombs, but because people wanted to purchase Coca Cola and Levi's and to buy print-magazines with real rock-stars on their covers. That's a powerful statement. I wish I could forward it to Obama and the rest of the heads.
bad_user 13y ago
> A diminished USA is going to leave a vacuum which, regardless of the current behaviour of the USA government, is not going to be a good thing as Russia and China rush in to grab what they can. I actually view this as a good thing. Power should be balanced amongst multiple super-powers, instead of a single one. In latest years the U.S. has been able to strong-arm other countries into laws and agreements that align with U.S. laws or that benefit the U.S. to the detriment of the countries involved, with examples being the EU Copyright Directive, ACTA, the various patents reforms, the EU data-sharing agreements after 9/11 and so on. Right now the U.S. has the power to extend government-granted monopolies to the whole world or to squash rights that citizens of other countries could otherwise have. This only happens because the U.S. is able to wield so much economical and military power. It's unnatural, goes against the principles of a free market and other countries can no longer develop in its shadow.
- Sven7 13y ago
  > It is unnatural The irony is, its very much a natural phenomenon i.e. seen in nature. In nature hierarchies are the norm.
  - bad_user 13y ago
    What hierarchies are you talking about? If you're talking about the food chain pyramid, it's entirely misleading as it doesn't say nothing about survivability/adaptability skills. Hyenas will outlive lions, gray wolves will outlive tigers.
    - Sven7 13y ago
      > Power should be balanced amongst multiple super-powers, instead of a single one. This is not something you see in nature. It is not natural. That is all I am saying. Within a pride of lions, wolves, gorillas what have you, there exists hierarchy. The hierarchy exists cause it renders advantages to the survival of the group. If there are say four contenders interested in a mate, only one wins and that helps the entire group cause the best(most fit) genes are passed forward.
srisa 13y ago
" ... The consequences of this could be rather serious. A diminished USA is going to leave a vacuum which, regardless of the current behaviour of the USA government, is not going to be a good thing as Russia and China rush in to grab what they can. ... " And what makes you think that Russia and China will be worse than USA? Each country acts to protect it's own interests; some may do it with kid gloves, some may do it with iron fist. Difference, if any, would be of degree, not of kind. Some may assume a moral high ground for USA, not everyone would subscribe to that world-view.

by smackay 13y ago

threeseed 13y ago

You couldn't be more wrong here. North Korea and Iran are both coming to the table with the US/EU as a result of economic isolation and sanctions. It has been without a doubt the best approach short of military involvement (which nobody wants). And this incident isn't going to cause the US one iota of problems in the future. China is actively trying to improve relations and Russia is becoming more and more isolated as we saw at the G8. This situation is going to affect world relations the same way Wikileaks has i.e. not at all.

rimantas 13y ago
Don't treay US and EU as the same. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/usa-security-eu-idUSL5N0EN1D420130611 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/usa-security-eu-id...

paganel 13y ago

As an Eastern-European dependent on US "soft power" I really hoped that the last "lost" decade would really change how things work at the State Department and about how the US handles its foreign policy generally speaking. IMHO, the US relies too much on how many carriers they can bring to a "hot point" and how much aerial damage they can cause, sort of forgetting that the Berlin Wall was not teared down using bombs, but because people wanted to purchase Coca Cola and Levi's and to buy print-magazines with real rock-stars on their covers. There's also something to be said about America needing a Nixon-like strategic thinker (his openness to Mao etc) and forgetting about the small battles that don't accomplish anything (we've killed X mujaheddin in the Yemen desert, we've "liberated" a God-forgotten Afghan province etc)

notdrunkatall 13y ago
> the US relies too much on how many carriers they can bring to a "hot point" and how much aerial damage they can cause, sort of forgetting that the Berlin Wall was not teared down using bombs, but because people wanted to purchase Coca Cola and Levi's and to buy print-magazines with real rock-stars on their covers. That's a powerful statement. I wish I could forward it to Obama and the rest of the heads.

bad_user 13y ago

> A diminished USA is going to leave a vacuum which, regardless of the current behaviour of the USA government, is not going to be a good thing as Russia and China rush in to grab what they can. I actually view this as a good thing. Power should be balanced amongst multiple super-powers, instead of a single one. In latest years the U.S. has been able to strong-arm other countries into laws and agreements that align with U.S. laws or that benefit the U.S. to the detriment of the countries involved, with examples being the EU Copyright Directive, ACTA, the various patents reforms, the EU data-sharing agreements after 9/11 and so on. Right now the U.S. has the power to extend government-granted monopolies to the whole world or to squash rights that citizens of other countries could otherwise have. This only happens because the U.S. is able to wield so much economical and military power. It's unnatural, goes against the principles of a free market and other countries can no longer develop in its shadow.

Sven7 13y ago
> It is unnatural The irony is, its very much a natural phenomenon i.e. seen in nature. In nature hierarchies are the norm.
- bad_user 13y ago
  What hierarchies are you talking about? If you're talking about the food chain pyramid, it's entirely misleading as it doesn't say nothing about survivability/adaptability skills. Hyenas will outlive lions, gray wolves will outlive tigers.
  - Sven7 13y ago
    > Power should be balanced amongst multiple super-powers, instead of a single one. This is not something you see in nature. It is not natural. That is all I am saying. Within a pride of lions, wolves, gorillas what have you, there exists hierarchy. The hierarchy exists cause it renders advantages to the survival of the group. If there are say four contenders interested in a mate, only one wins and that helps the entire group cause the best(most fit) genes are passed forward.

srisa 13y ago

" ... The consequences of this could be rather serious. A diminished USA is going to leave a vacuum which, regardless of the current behaviour of the USA government, is not going to be a good thing as Russia and China rush in to grab what they can. ... " And what makes you think that Russia and China will be worse than USA? Each country acts to protect it's own interests; some may do it with kid gloves, some may do it with iron fist. Difference, if any, would be of degree, not of kind. Some may assume a moral high ground for USA, not everyone would subscribe to that world-view.