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The term "enter" (a country) is a term of art in immigration law and international law, so, yes, it is technically possible that Snowden is on the sovereign ter

The term "enter" (a country) is a term of art in immigration law and international law, so, yes, it is technically possible that Snowden is on the sovereign territory of Russia without ever having entered Russia. The issue of what travel documents he was using to get on the last airline flight he took, and whether or not those will be considered valid for entry to Russia by Russian authorities, is one of the many interesting open questions in this case. Does anyone reading this thread have any serious doubt that China uses all national technical means available to maintain surveillance of as many places it can reach, especially in regard to separatist movements like the Tibetan and Eastern Turkestan independence movements? Likewise for Russia; can there be any reasonable doubt that Russia monitors much (all?) Internet traffic to the country from elsewhere, or within the country in general?

codeulike 13y ago
I'm pretty sure that Assange said that Ecuador had issued Snowden with refugee-asylum type documents (sorry dont know the official term) that allow him to travel. Thats what he used to get out of Hong Kong I think. This does not necessarily mean that Ecuador is his final destination though.
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  Does anyone else find it incredibly unsettling that you need to be sponsored by a state to move about the world? I mean it's something that I've always known, but never considered until recently. Until just a couple of hundred years ago, this was not the case - you could do something which put you at odds with your country, and despite their best efforts, you could still disappear. Contrast that with today, when your freedom hinges on the whims of our parent state and the subsequent whims of any other state which might decide to stick their neck out to help you. It's unsettling how much different the two situations are in terms of how much control the state ultimately has over us. And that control is only increasing. Do something against the collective state apparatus, and you had better hope that somewhere, someone is willing to help you out, because without those documents, you're going to be fucked. I don't think I like that very much.
  - icegreentea 13y ago
    I think you're over simplifying the past a bit. While it's true that it was harder for governments to track you, it wasn't like they weren't trying. If someone in power wanted you dead (or captured... but usually dead), they would go ahead and try. You can go right back to the Roman Republic and the Greek city-states and find cases of people trying to flee, or going into exile, and then being hunted down and executed. Your ability to protect yourself has always had as much to do with your own abilities and luck, as your ability to secure protection from a rival state.
    - notdrunkatall 13y ago
      Being hunted is tangential to my point, which is that that we are entirely at the mercy of our states.
threeseed 13y ago
There are definitely some interesting questions here. Snowden's passport has been revoked so in theory there is no legal basis for him to leave the transit area. He can assumably claim asylum whilst there but according to Russian Federation Law he doesn't seem to meet the conditions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Federation_Law_on_Refugees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Federation_Law_on_Refug... So I would imagine that Ecuadorian diplomatic officials would have to process his asylum request in the transit area and then fly him from there ?
- marquis 13y ago
  The news I was reading yesterday assumed this also, based on the Ecuador diplomatic plates seen: "Two cars with diplomatic license plates of Ecuador – the country named among Snowden’s possible destinations – were spotted at Sheremetyevo airport." http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/ http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/
brown9-2 13y ago
Here is an article from Wired about Russia's new Internet surveillance program: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/russia-surveillance/all/ http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/russia-surveillance/... Signed into law by Vladimir Putin on July 28, the internet-filtering measure contains a single, innocuous-sounding paragraph that allows those compiling the Register to draw on court decisions relating to the banning of websites. The problem is, the courts have ruled to block more than child pornographers’ sites. The judges have also agreed to online bans on political extremists and opponents of the Putin regime. ... Most importantly, however, the new Roskomnadzor system introduces DPI (deep packet inspection) on a nationwide scale. Although DPI is not mentioned in the law, the Ministry of Communications — along with the biggest internet corporations active in Russia — concluded in August that the only way to implement the law was through deep packet inspection.

codeulike 13y ago

I'm pretty sure that Assange said that Ecuador had issued Snowden with refugee-asylum type documents (sorry dont know the official term) that allow him to travel. Thats what he used to get out of Hong Kong I think. This does not necessarily mean that Ecuador is his final destination though.

notdrunkatall 13y ago
Does anyone else find it incredibly unsettling that you need to be sponsored by a state to move about the world? I mean it's something that I've always known, but never considered until recently. Until just a couple of hundred years ago, this was not the case - you could do something which put you at odds with your country, and despite their best efforts, you could still disappear. Contrast that with today, when your freedom hinges on the whims of our parent state and the subsequent whims of any other state which might decide to stick their neck out to help you. It's unsettling how much different the two situations are in terms of how much control the state ultimately has over us. And that control is only increasing. Do something against the collective state apparatus, and you had better hope that somewhere, someone is willing to help you out, because without those documents, you're going to be fucked. I don't think I like that very much.
- icegreentea 13y ago
  I think you're over simplifying the past a bit. While it's true that it was harder for governments to track you, it wasn't like they weren't trying. If someone in power wanted you dead (or captured... but usually dead), they would go ahead and try. You can go right back to the Roman Republic and the Greek city-states and find cases of people trying to flee, or going into exile, and then being hunted down and executed. Your ability to protect yourself has always had as much to do with your own abilities and luck, as your ability to secure protection from a rival state.
  - notdrunkatall 13y ago
    Being hunted is tangential to my point, which is that that we are entirely at the mercy of our states.

threeseed 13y ago

There are definitely some interesting questions here. Snowden's passport has been revoked so in theory there is no legal basis for him to leave the transit area. He can assumably claim asylum whilst there but according to Russian Federation Law he doesn't seem to meet the conditions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Federation_Law_on_Refugees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Federation_Law_on_Refug... So I would imagine that Ecuadorian diplomatic officials would have to process his asylum request in the transit area and then fly him from there ?

marquis 13y ago
The news I was reading yesterday assumed this also, based on the Ecuador diplomatic plates seen: "Two cars with diplomatic license plates of Ecuador – the country named among Snowden’s possible destinations – were spotted at Sheremetyevo airport." http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/ http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/

brown9-2 13y ago

Here is an article from Wired about Russia's new Internet surveillance program: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/russia-surveillance/all/ http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/russia-surveillance/... Signed into law by Vladimir Putin on July 28, the internet-filtering measure contains a single, innocuous-sounding paragraph that allows those compiling the Register to draw on court decisions relating to the banning of websites. The problem is, the courts have ruled to block more than child pornographers’ sites. The judges have also agreed to online bans on political extremists and opponents of the Putin regime. ... Most importantly, however, the new Roskomnadzor system introduces DPI (deep packet inspection) on a nationwide scale. Although DPI is not mentioned in the law, the Ministry of Communications — along with the biggest internet corporations active in Russia — concluded in August that the only way to implement the law was through deep packet inspection.