4 ms·

Should I become Benevolent Dictator of some future anarchist America, the Pledge might actually be the first thing I get rid of. I'm of the opinion that if peop

by mpyne 13y ago

Should I become Benevolent Dictator of some future anarchist America, the Pledge might actually be the first thing I get rid of. I'm of the opinion that if people are going to pledge allegiance to anything it will be because they want to, not because they were made to recite some prose. Of course I know that opinion isn't exactly controversial around here.

zanny 13y ago
Well, foundationally here, if you want to talk about voluntarism all those kids are forced to be there, and their parents often don't have a power to stop it (too busy to homeschool, too poor to private school).
- mpyne 13y ago
  There's a very compelling societal interest in having children receive a basic education though. We make kids get shots, require them to learn to drive to get a license, etc. for the same reason. There's no compelling societal interest in brainwashing kids to claim to support a government (since even making them recite the Pledge hardly makes them more reliable citizens).
  - zanny 13y ago
    Public schooling often doesn't provide a basic education, though. The graduating illiteracy rates, lack of any retained historical knowledge ("is Britain a state? or "isn't Toronto in the US?") the inability to do basic arithmatic without a calaculator, etc. It also doesn't teach anything close to critical thinking, problem solving, questioning fundamentals, or anything close to an exposure to career domains. Also, the shots are at a parents discretion, even if peer pressure is applied. The choice to get a drivers license is inevitably on the child (you can't force them to take the test). Public education is compulsory by gunpoint (ie, imprisonment of parents who withhold their children from the public school system or homeschooled exams, though there are so many exceptions it is silly).

4 ms·

Should I become Benevolent Dictator of some future anarchist America, the Pledge might actually be the first thing I get rid of. I'm of the opinion that if peop

by mpyne 13y ago

zanny 13y ago
Well, foundationally here, if you want to talk about voluntarism all those kids are forced to be there, and their parents often don't have a power to stop it (too busy to homeschool, too poor to private school).
- mpyne 13y ago
  There's a very compelling societal interest in having children receive a basic education though. We make kids get shots, require them to learn to drive to get a license, etc. for the same reason. There's no compelling societal interest in brainwashing kids to claim to support a government (since even making them recite the Pledge hardly makes them more reliable citizens).
  - zanny 13y ago
    Public schooling often doesn't provide a basic education, though. The graduating illiteracy rates, lack of any retained historical knowledge ("is Britain a state? or "isn't Toronto in the US?") the inability to do basic arithmatic without a calaculator, etc. It also doesn't teach anything close to critical thinking, problem solving, questioning fundamentals, or anything close to an exposure to career domains. Also, the shots are at a parents discretion, even if peer pressure is applied. The choice to get a drivers license is inevitably on the child (you can't force them to take the test). Public education is compulsory by gunpoint (ie, imprisonment of parents who withhold their children from the public school system or homeschooled exams, though there are so many exceptions it is silly).