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Short on facts. What's this "85% pay cut" line they keep repeating? Unsupported and smacks of sensationalism. This thread has a much better discussion of the a

by abalone 13y ago

Short on facts. What's this "85% pay cut" line they keep repeating? Unsupported and smacks of sensationalism. This thread has a much better discussion of the actual numbers. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5935183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5935183 In short, Pandora is small right now and that's why the payout seems small. But by paying per-listener as opposed to per-broadcast, it has the potential to scale to higher payouts than traditional radio.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
>> "Short on facts. What's this "85% pay cut" line they keep repeating? Unsupported and smacks of sensationalism." You can find the info on where the 85% comes from in this story[1] but the important paragraph is below. "Pandora CEO Joe Kennedy appeared at a hearing on Capitol Hill in support of the Internet Radio Fairness Act, or IFRA, which would lower the amount of royalties that Pandora and other Internet radio services pay to artists. The industry has estimated the act would allow Pandora to reduce payments to artists by as much as 85 percent." [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/pandora-artist-royalties_n_2239458.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/pandora-artist-roya...
- abalone 13y ago
  ...which has zero facts in support.
anigbrowl 13y ago
But the problem in the other thread is the assumption that a radio listener and a Pandora listener are the same. They're clearly not, because if Pandora streamed the same thing to every listener it wouldn't have any customers. People pay Pandora for music customized to their personal taste. From the musician's point of view, that makes it less effective than radio at reaching new listeners.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > People pay Pandora for music customized to their personal taste. From the musician's point of view, that makes it less effective than radio at reaching new listeners. More effective, I'd argue; sure, its likely that a smaller percentage of the Pandora listeners are new listeners, but the targeting of Pandora stations is more focussed better than radio so a larger percentage of the Pandora listeners that are new listeners are likely to become fans.
- abalone 13y ago
  That conclusion makes absolutely no sense. Personalized stations are WAY more effective at targeting new listeners than radio stations that play the same shit over and over.. especially for smaller/emerging artists. Do you think Amazon would be more or less effective without personalized product recommendations? Which is better for niche products, Amazon or Walmart?
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    Prove it. I would way rather have my product sold in Walmart. That's why Walmart suppliers are willing to accept such thin margins. Amazon's great for consumers. As a consumer, I like it that they have pretty much anything I would want to buy. As a content creator, put me in Walmart any time, as I will be surrounded by a much smaller number of competing products. Being on the same shelf as big sellers Justin Bieber and Skrillex is a dream scenario for an emerging artist. My needs as a producer are way different from my needs as a consumer.
    - abalone 13y ago
      Um, you completely missed the point. Most niche products will never make it into Walmart. Just like most bands don't get much radio airplay. Those systems are optimized for pumping out a large volume of a limited selection. You see that, and can fantasize about being in that "top 100", but you're not following your logic to its conclusion with respect to the rest of musicians. What's interesting is that even for the top 100 the Pandora model has the potential to scale to higher royalties than the radio model, which pays the same whether 1 or 1 million people listen to a broadcast. Less popular bands find niche audiences, more popular ones get paid for every single listen.
      - scholia 13y ago
        This is true. I found new artists from Pandora (my Orbit station) that mainstream radio stations have never heard of and certainly wouldn't play. In other words, radio is focused around the head (big hits in any genre) while Pandora reaches the "long tail".
lessnonymous 13y ago
85% cut on some arbitrary digital radio fee .. or ∞ increase on AM/FM. In another universe: "Pink Floyd gets paid for every person listening to their music on Pandora. Band claims it's a win over traditional broadcast from which they received nothing"

by abalone 13y ago

k-mcgrady 13y ago

>> "Short on facts. What's this "85% pay cut" line they keep repeating? Unsupported and smacks of sensationalism." You can find the info on where the 85% comes from in this story[1] but the important paragraph is below. "Pandora CEO Joe Kennedy appeared at a hearing on Capitol Hill in support of the Internet Radio Fairness Act, or IFRA, which would lower the amount of royalties that Pandora and other Internet radio services pay to artists. The industry has estimated the act would allow Pandora to reduce payments to artists by as much as 85 percent." [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/pandora-artist-royalties_n_2239458.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/pandora-artist-roya...

abalone 13y ago
...which has zero facts in support.

anigbrowl 13y ago

But the problem in the other thread is the assumption that a radio listener and a Pandora listener are the same. They're clearly not, because if Pandora streamed the same thing to every listener it wouldn't have any customers. People pay Pandora for music customized to their personal taste. From the musician's point of view, that makes it less effective than radio at reaching new listeners.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> People pay Pandora for music customized to their personal taste. From the musician's point of view, that makes it less effective than radio at reaching new listeners. More effective, I'd argue; sure, its likely that a smaller percentage of the Pandora listeners are new listeners, but the targeting of Pandora stations is more focussed better than radio so a larger percentage of the Pandora listeners that are new listeners are likely to become fans.
abalone 13y ago
That conclusion makes absolutely no sense. Personalized stations are WAY more effective at targeting new listeners than radio stations that play the same shit over and over.. especially for smaller/emerging artists. Do you think Amazon would be more or less effective without personalized product recommendations? Which is better for niche products, Amazon or Walmart?
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Prove it. I would way rather have my product sold in Walmart. That's why Walmart suppliers are willing to accept such thin margins. Amazon's great for consumers. As a consumer, I like it that they have pretty much anything I would want to buy. As a content creator, put me in Walmart any time, as I will be surrounded by a much smaller number of competing products. Being on the same shelf as big sellers Justin Bieber and Skrillex is a dream scenario for an emerging artist. My needs as a producer are way different from my needs as a consumer.
  - abalone 13y ago
    Um, you completely missed the point. Most niche products will never make it into Walmart. Just like most bands don't get much radio airplay. Those systems are optimized for pumping out a large volume of a limited selection. You see that, and can fantasize about being in that "top 100", but you're not following your logic to its conclusion with respect to the rest of musicians. What's interesting is that even for the top 100 the Pandora model has the potential to scale to higher royalties than the radio model, which pays the same whether 1 or 1 million people listen to a broadcast. Less popular bands find niche audiences, more popular ones get paid for every single listen.
    - scholia 13y ago
      This is true. I found new artists from Pandora (my Orbit station) that mainstream radio stations have never heard of and certainly wouldn't play. In other words, radio is focused around the head (big hits in any genre) while Pandora reaches the "long tail".

lessnonymous 13y ago

85% cut on some arbitrary digital radio fee .. or ∞ increase on AM/FM. In another universe: "Pink Floyd gets paid for every person listening to their music on Pandora. Band claims it's a win over traditional broadcast from which they received nothing"